Starting a Christmas tree farm in our old age.

[bearcreekfarm]

I have always loved growing trees and have planted tens of thousands of them in my lifetime. So far!

When hubby and I bought our 240 acre farm thirteen years ago we briefly considered planting part of it in Christmas trees. We rejected the idea in the end, in part because it is a lot of work and, being retired already, we didn't need the income. A couple who lives down the road a few miles had been growing and selling Christmas trees for several years and they counted on the income from the sale of the trees to supplement that from their town jobs and we thought that it would be rude to compete with them.

But last year when we went to cut our tree we noticed that the couple are aging- and much faster than we seem to be Their adult son was visiting and there was a grandson there as well- not sure if he was the child of the couple's son who was there or of another of their kids. The adult son was watching a football game the entire time and the grandson had his face buried in some kind of electronic device. The woman always keeps a pot of hot cider going on the woodstove in the house and has all of their customers come in to sign their guest book, have a mug of cider, and visit for a short while. It makes for a pleasant afternoon, especially as we never see these neighbors at any other time of the year. During the time we were at the house last year neither the son or the grandson ever looked up or said hello or came into the kitchen area to join us, which was fine, but I commented to my hubby later that neither of them seemed to share the older couple's enthusiasm for off-grid country living.

This year we went to get a tree again, and the scenario was pretty much the same, except that the older man who owns the farm along with his wife was outside in the tree lot working the entire time we were there. Apparently they had gone in and cut down a ton of older trees that were 25-30' tall and too big to cut for sale as Christmas trees. The remaining trees had all been heavily pruned- which if you have never pruned an evergreen tree, in the summer cause that's when they are pruned, it is a hard, hot job. Not sure what the man was doing, but he might have been trimming branches off of the downed trees so that he can use the poles for building material- we saw a lot of pole construction around their homestead. But in any event, the grown son and grandson didn't seem to have much interest in pitching in to help- the older parents are fit and strong and not fat while the son and grandson are both chunky and neither of them looks as if they have done much physical activity of any kind, ever. sigh.

After we had our tree and left I told hubby that we should go ahead and start planting trees ourselves because my guess is that these neighbors will not still be selling their trees in another 8-10 years and it sure doesn't look as if the younger generations are likely to take the operation over from them, or even help them to keep it going. Plus, their customers tend to come from the opposite end of the county, whereas we are closer to a different town and would likely draw customers from more over our way anyway, so we wouldn't necessarily be competing with them directly. And they don't seem to advertise, at all that we can tell, unless they place an ad in the newspaper in the town over their way. We only know about them because they have a sign out by the county road that we use to get to the larger town that is ten miles past their place. I have sent several people to them who have asked on social media about a cut-your-own farm, these neighbors do not use social media and are missing out on a lot of potential sales.

So, we will start site prep this coming summer and plant the following year. I think we will start with 300-400 trees and then add a few hundred every year or two depending on how fast they all grow. The neighbors typically sell around 150 trees a year, at $25 each, though they told us that they will be raising the price to $30 next year. Based on my observations of the area I think we could sell as many as 200 trees a year once they are ready to start harvesting, without knocking ourselves out too much. Our plan is that our DD8 can help with the work as we go and then take over the sales operation once we start harvesting- by which time she will be close to 18yo. No idea if she will remain on this farm once hubby and I are gone. She will inherit it, but she might choose to sell it and move to California or someplace other than rural Northern Minnesota, sigh. But either way it will add value to the place both as a cash crop and by the resulting improvement to wildlife habitat, and if she can spend a few seasons selling trees to help pay for her education, or whatever else she decides to pursue after high school, that will be a bonus.

[snoozy]

There is a Christmas tree farm down the road from us. Two, in fact. The family that have been running it have had to curtail the number of days they are open because it's just down to the one brother to do everything and it is too much. The sister has moved about 45 minutes away and she has at least 2 jobs, and her kids are in college or out of state or whatever. The mother is 94. The brother loves the business, but he can't do it alone. This is a U-cut place. But you have to help people -- drive over with the tractor rig and give them a ride back to the barn with their tree, measure it, net it up, take their money, help them tie it onto their car, etc. Keep the cider and coffee brewing. Many more hands are required for a successful enterprise than you would think. And you don't know what kind of physical shape you are going to be in when harvest time comes.

Consider reforestation just for the sake of reforestation, for the environmental benefits of live trees. Maybe you can get a conservation grant: alia.link/2019/12/26/funding-our-forests-part-one/

[bearcreekfarm]

Dec 29, 2019 1:52:04 GMT snoozy said:

There is a Christmas tree farm down the road from us. Two, in fact. The family that have been running it have had to curtail the number of days they are open because it's just down to the one brother to do everything and it is too much. The sister has moved about 45 minutes away and she has at least 2 jobs, and her kids are in college or out of state or whatever. The mother is 94. The brother loves the business, but he can't do it alone. This is a U-cut place. But you have to help people -- drive over with the tractor rig and give them a ride back to the barn with their tree, measure it, net it up, take their money, help them tie it onto their car, etc. Keep the cider and coffee brewing. Many more hands are required for a successful enterprise than you would think. And you don't know what kind of physical shape you are going to be in when harvest time comes.

Consider reforestation just for the sake of reforestation, for the environmental benefits of live trees. Maybe you can get a conservation grant: alia.link/2019/12/26/funding-our-forests-part-one/

Good points. Our hope is that our DD, who will be a teenager by the time the trees are ready to harvest, will be able to handle the sales side of things- with a bit of help/supervision/training from us.

The neighbors who run the tree farm now don't help us at all when we go to buy trees- maybe we are more self-sufficient than many of their customers, but even when we first started going there they would just hand us a saw and point us in the direction of the tree lot. They charge the same price for all of their trees, so no measuring and calculating prices. They do not net any of the trees. Not sure about loading onto cars- we have only seen people driving trucks in and out of there in the past. I imagine that we would do the same- one price fits all, no nets, and hopefully the buyers can load their own tree into whatever conveyance they arrive in.

We are talking about building a shed type of structure, either on wheels or on skids so that we can haul it down to the field where the trees will be when we are ready to start selling. It would serve as an office, with a wood stove for heat and to make some hot cider or coffee on. We know that we would never leave our kiddo out there alone, so at least one of us would be present to help out when the lot is open.

As for aging, we certainly cannot predict where we will be health-wise in even a few years, let alone 6-8-15 years from now. Hopefully we won't be dead! But if the physical labor is too much for us we will have to hire some help. We have many Amish neighbors whose sons are always looking for work- they are hard workers and affordable- unlike the non-Amish young people who expect to be paid $20-30 an hour for farm labor. So, pretty sure that there will still be some teenage boys around looking for work when harvest time arrives.

[Jolly]

We had a tree farmer about 25 miles from here, who had a pretty neat concept...He grew Christmas trees and peaches. Name of the place? Peachy Pines.

In the winter season, he had horse drawn wagon rides for the kids and he'd let you cut the tree or he'd cut it. In the summer he sold peaches.

Retired Air Force, he had the same thing happen as we're talking about here...None of the kids wanted the business, even though it was profitable.

[feather]

Even if your DD doesn't want to work the Christmas tree farm.
Even if you both end up not being able to work to sell the trees.
Even if there are no willing teenage boys.

Planting the trees is a great investment. Planting trees is good exercise and will benefit your health.
You could donate the trees/work to a girl scout or boy scout troop that is willing to advertise and man/woman the tree farm, and write some part of that off on your taxes.
You could cut the trees and sell them to someone in a city willing to transport them to a place to sell them.

I would be all for that, if I had land to do that on.

[Maura]

I am wondering if you could take over your neighbor's business. The trees are planted and they have regular customers. If they have not been planting trees recently, you could also plant on your own property and have those trees ready when you need them. This way, you could get right into the business, advertise to increase awareness, and probably sell cut trees to some stores. Maybe the neighbors are already selling precut trees to stores, but if not it is a market. There is also the wreath market. Do they sell wreaths?

Trimming trees is hard work and I wonder if there are varieties that tend to grow tall rather than spread out? I do not like trees that look like they have been put in a pencil sharpener.

I like the idea of having fruit trees in your mix. Also, potted Christmas trees.

I wish you well on your endeavor.

[Deleted]

Good luck, lots of work. Takes 8 years here for a 6' tree, 2 trims a year for the dense trees that sell well, 1 in the heat of summer, need the leaders cut back. We had 600 acres of trees, harvest starts in early Nov for the refrigerated trees. We didn't want people on the farm so we didn't do U-cut. We trucked our own to several lots in LA and other places and sold by the semi load, U-haul, we cut and baled. Mostly through brokers....James

[tenbusybees]

My step-dad's nephew had a Christmas tree farm. He sold them already cut and ready to go. Between his trees, logs, and breeding/selling coon dogs he carved out a pretty good life for himself.

A tree farm where I live would never amount to much. Several people have already tried. There aren't even any tree lots anymore that I know of. People around here just don't really do real Christmas trees. Even the holiday lights are starting to wane.

We live in a very Hispanic area. Christmas trees and such aren't really part of the culture. (The tamales though are awesome, love this time of the year for that alone!) Plus so many people commute to the big city they don't want to bother with the upkeep. It can still be pretty warm this time of the year. (Christmas day this year was in the 70s and I had the windows open.) Warm weather and real trees makes for lots of bugs. And lastly the disposal is a real problem. In the county we can burn the trees and be done. In the town burning is not an option, the trash company won't pick it up off the curb, the homeowners have to $chedule brush/limb pickup, and the city cites anybody who leaves trees on their curb. It's not uncommon to drive down the county roads and see Christmas trees in the ditches.

[solargeek]

My only dear friend here in the place we moved to in 2012, is a large Christmas tree farmer. Her husband died in 2014 and she is alone doing all the work. It was his family tree farm for generations. She has 50 acres. People common cut their own and she does not help them put it on top of the tree.

However to pay the taxes on the land because sales have gone down over the years even though it's a beautiful location and she charges a set low price for each tree, she makes wreaths. She took a wreath making class before her husband died and now she pays all of her property taxes that way. She was a teacher here and she gives back to the community by holding wreath making classes for five different grades during the month of December. The kids love it.
But she says everything she does is incredibly hard work and she's exhausted most the time from September until December 15 she shut down wreath making operations.


Good luck to you.

[Jolly]

Dec 30, 2019 10:46:08 GMT tenbusybees said:

My step-dad's nephew had a Christmas tree farm. He sold them already cut and ready to go. Between his trees, logs, and breeding/selling coon dogs he carved out a pretty good life for himself.

A tree farm where I live would never amount to much. Several people have already tried. There aren't even any tree lots anymore that I know of. People around here just don't really do real Christmas trees. Even the holiday lights are starting to wane.

We live in a very Hispanic area. Christmas trees and such aren't really part of the culture. (The tamales though are awesome, love this time of the year for that alone!) Plus so many people commute to the big city they don't want to bother with the upkeep. It can still be pretty warm this time of the year. (Christmas day this year was in the 70s and I had the windows open.) Warm weather and real trees makes for lots of bugs. And lastly the disposal is a real problem. In the county we can burn the trees and be done. In the town burning is not an option, the trash company won't pick it up off the curb, the homeowners have to $chedule brush/limb pickup, and the city cites anybody who leaves trees on their curb. It's not uncommon to drive down the county roads and see Christmas trees in the ditches.

Over here, the city will grind them for mulch, but you have to bring the tree to them.

[willowgirl]

I remember back in Michigan, when Christmas tree growing was reclassified as an agricultural activity, a bunch of downstaters planted their hunting land in Scotch pines. I'm assuming they got a tax break for having a "farm." Of course lots of the trees were never harvested and Scotch pines are not very pretty trees when they're left to grow wild. They were kind of an eyesore ...

I'd think the success of a tree farm would depend on your proximity to urban customers and your ability to cash in on free family (i.e., kid) labor!

[bearcreekfarm]

Dec 30, 2019 5:17:11 GMT @jwal10 said:

Good luck, lots of work. Takes 8 years here for a 6' tree, 2 trims a year for the dense trees that sell well, 1 in the heat of summer, need the leaders cut back. We had 600 acres of trees, harvest starts in early Nov for the refrigerated trees. We didn't want people on the farm so we didn't do U-cut. We trucked our own to several lots in LA and other places and sold by the semi load, U-haul, we cut and baled. Mostly through brokers....James

600 acres! That is a lot of trees! Way more than we have in mind- we are aiming for just selling 150-200 trees a year once we are up and running. That is plenty of work for two old folks and a kid, lol. We aren't trying to make a living from it, just to supplement a bit and improve the habitat for wildlife. Of course, then we will have to hunt more deer/rabbits/squirrels/whatever in order to keep them from killing all the trees

[bearcreekfarm]

Dec 30, 2019 12:23:14 GMT solargeek said:

My only dear friend here in the place we moved to in 2012, is a large Christmas tree farmer. Her husband died in 2014 and she is alone doing all the work. It was his family tree farm for generations. She has 50 acres. People common cut their own and she does not help them put it on top of the tree.

However to pay the taxes on the land because sales have gone down over the years even though it's a beautiful location and she charges a set low price for each tree, she makes wreaths. She took a wreath making class before her husband died and now she pays all of her property taxes that way. She was a teacher here and she gives back to the community by holding wreath making classes for five different grades during the month of December. The kids love it.
But she says everything she does is incredibly hard work and she's exhausted most the time from September until December 15 she shut down wreath making operations.


Good luck to you.

I have been reading up on the Christmas tree business and many tree farm operators also make and sell wreaths, garlands, and other decorations. I am not real crafty but will probably take a class on wreathmaking if I can find one. Some farms make more $$$ from wreaths and garlands than they do from selling trees! I don't know that we would sell many wreaths/garlands on the farm, but if we made a bunch of them and hauled them into town or down to the Cities, maybe.

It seems like everything to do with trees is hard work, but it is work that we enjoy and as long as we can keep doing it.......and DD is young, strong, and a hard worker. She is also a budding little entrepreneur, and says now that she wants to stay on this farm "forever", lol. Well, even with a paid for farm she will need to find a way to earn a living if she stays, and jobs are hard to come by around here. This would be one option.

[bearcreekfarm]

We are also working on another tree project that we have been kicking around for several years. We have a 5 acre field that is not level and is full of rocks so it has only ever been used to pasture cows or sheep in the past. We have done nothing with it since we moved here. But I have always wanted to plant trees on it and am planning a mixed planting of Korean Stone Pine nut, chestnut, sugar maples, and a hybrid Pecan tree that yields nuts that taste like either pecans, hickory, or black walnut, all on one tree. There is a farm down near the Cities that developed the hybrid pecan tree and have been working with it for decades so I feel pretty confident about that one. We would also add some hazelnuts, which are bushes, not trees.

We have been dragging our feet on the 5 acre project, not sure if we wanted to commit to it or not, but we have finally decided to go ahead with it. We purchased 25 of the Korean Stone Nut pine trees 3.5 years ago for a test planting and they have done fabulously well. We lost three of them- two to pocket gophers and not sure about the third one, but the rest are growing like gangbusters. At one point we thought we would wait to see how they produce before planting more, but at this point we are just going to forge ahead and keep our fingers crossed. It will be another 3-5 years before we get any nuts from the test planting and we just don't want to wait any longer.

The other holdup is that we have decided to fence the entire 5 acres with high-tensile electric fencing to keep the deer out. We planted hundreds of sugar maples 13 years ago and not a single one of them survived Some were lost to drought, but deer got most of them.

So, hubby and I probably won't benefit from harvesting a crop from most of those trees, but they will always be there for our DD, and if she sells the place after we are gone the nut trees will definitely add some value as a potential cash crop- and decades from now they will provide lumber and firewood for whoever owns this place.

[Maura]

I wonder if your focus could be wreath making using the boughs from your own trees. You could have an online store and ship them year round. Don't think you have to do everything yourself. You can sell other people's Christmas things from your online store. I am sure there are other people in your area who would like to make a craft and let someone else sell it.

You could sell trees to local stores rather than have people come out to the farm. That way you would not have to have a warm body on the farm during the busy season. Trees are cut in August for the urban market, but there is no reason you can't cut them in November and possibly October so they are not all dried out by Thanksgiving, since you would not be cutting hundreds of them. Now, if you have a foot of snow on the ground by then, you'd want to do earlier cutting. I guess I would choose a variety that naturally has a conical shape at the 6 - 7 foot height.

[feather]

The Pine Trees That Produce Pine Nuts

Approximately 20 species of pine trees produce pine seeds that are large enough to harvest. The most commonly harvested seeds come from four particular pine tree varieties: the Mexican pinon (Pinus cembroides), the Colorado pinion (P. edulis), the Italian stone pine (P. pinea), and the Chinese nut pine (P. koraiensis).

If you already have any of these types, you could sell pine nuts.
www.thespruceeats.com/what-are-pine-nuts-1807045

[solargeek]

bearcreekfarm, For my friend, she makes more off the wreaths than the tree sales.

Also, she sells to nearby church groups who only want a few sizes and maybe ribbons and they re-sell at a profit. My DH is Grand Knight of KOCs locally but apparently their wreaths are really mass produced around here so hers were too high (believe me hers are reasonable). And she sells a ton of smaller ones and crosses made of boughs to those who want to decorate graves of loved ones all winter. My wreaths from her last until MAY. But we live in WI.

I like that I can choose size, ribbons she uses, and pickup time all online on FB. So easy!
She buys her supplies up north 1x/year. (up north is a WI term).

[wally]

Bearcreekfarm, go for it , you have a dream and a desire. Worse case would be firewood

[snoozy]

The second part of Funding Our Forests is up on my blog, if anyone is interested: alia.link/2020/01/17/funding-our-forests-part-two/

[shin]

When last I shopped for pine nuts they were indeed rather expensive to buy.

[Mari-in-IN]

Jan 19, 2020 1:13:35 GMT shin said:

When last I shopped for pine nuts they were indeed rather expensive to buy.

Yepper dude!  At this point - they are well out of my price range...  Guess I need to figure out how to grow them - eh?

[snoozy]

What you need are stone pines, Pinus pinea. They're all over the Mediterranean, and I liked them so much I bought a few seeds online from Germany and am trying to get them growing. We're pushing it here, because they're probably happiest in a warmer climate than ours (we're maritime 8, but climate change is moving everybody 500 miles south, so maybe they'll adjust.

[Use Less]

Wally, Christmas trees don't make good firewood.
But bearcreekfarm, if you want to plant and since you have the space, go to.  I probably haven't read enough posts of your post. The daughter who is at home is your 8th? May I ask what age you are calling "old"?

Probably apochyrphal, but attributed to Martin Luther: "Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree."

[grandmotherbear]

Bearcreekfarm, the thing Boy Scouts always taught me was to have a Plan B. In your case it doesn't seem as if the Plan B would be drastic since you are not gambling on the tree farm being the sole income of your household. Have you heard of "forest bathing?" Supposedly big in Scandinavian and Oriental cultures. Plan B could be offering mini-retreats for "Forest Bathing". Offering liquids might be a possibility especially if you ask for "Donations" rather than charging a set price.
Planting trees is always good, I figure- IF they are adapted to the climate- not the climate you're in but the climate that's coming. That's why I have been laying in tropical fruit and nut trees myself. And - Do you know what will happen next year is you don't plant trees this year? In a worst case scenario (I hope) you'de be a year older and not have any more trees.

Use Less what is wrong with being old? I'm going to be 70 next month and I am kind of proud of being old. It p.o.'s me no end when health care providers insist to me to me I'm not old, I'm young. Just because Florida is full of people older than me doesn't mean I'm not old too. To me it's not a negative designation at all. Just saying...

[Use Less]

gmb, I don't mind being my age, which is pretty close to yours.   What I dislike is people who assume that I need accomodations, or assume that the things we hear go with aging must therefore apply to me. It's an opportunity for some to push "us" out of the way.