|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Jun 25, 2015 22:53:24 GMT
Ok, got this generator at an amazing price with free shipping to my door no less, cheapest I ever saw. Has what they call 7hp engine, but looks like every other 5.5hp to 6.5hp clone engine. Has fresh gas and oil obviously since I was the one that filled them.
I can start it with air filter removed and spraying starting fluid into the carb. Will stay running long as I give it short bursts starting fluid. So ignition/sparkplug fine. Wont even attempt to run without starting fluid, whether I have choke open or closed. Immediately dies without starting fluid. Doesnt hesitate or anything, just immediately dies.
Plenty gas getting to carb fuel bowl. Remove drain plug and big stream gas flows out.
Ah, must be carb you say.... Well I keep spare NEW replacement carb since I have several of these engines anymore. The replacement carb for horizontal shaft engine off ebay (that floats over on slow boat from china) is ADJUSTABLE and works great with some modification to even use on vertical shaft mower engine. Anyway once installed on generator, same results. Runs with starting fluid, immediately dies whether choke open or closed without the starting fluid. No hesitation, no sputtering, nothing, just immediately plays dead without starting fluid.
Highly unlikely to have two brand new carbs be bad. And to just close any suspicion in that area, I swapped carb originally came on generator over onto different horizontal shaft clone engine and it runs fine.
And yes I checked gaskets on both sides of heat plate between carb and engine head.
|
|
|
|
Post by kkbhf on Jun 25, 2015 23:45:15 GMT
Maybe it's a Friday engine!  Did you check the spark plug, verify gap and that it's cinched down tight? Valve problem? |
|
|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Jun 26, 2015 0:26:58 GMT
Maybe it's a Friday engine! Did you check the spark plug, verify gap and that it's cinched down tight? Valve problem? It starts and runs fine on starting fluid. So compression fine, and valves must be adjusted at least within tolerance. Same with spark plug. Starts easy and runs fine long as it has starting fluid. i thought about the oil level sensor, but when oil falls too low, it grounds out the ignition so engine shouldnt run on starting fluid or gas.... I always get the "interesting" small engine problems. Probably cause I can easily and quickly solve the easy ones.... Only thing I keep thinking of is BIG air leak, but that should be pretty obvious. |
|
|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Jun 26, 2015 0:31:03 GMT
One would think even small air leak that once warm anyway, it should at least limp along on gasoline with choke closed.
|
|
|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Jun 26, 2015 0:33:12 GMT
Suppose I can dig out compression gauge with the adapter for small engines. Heaven only knows where any of my compression gauges are anymore. You dont use tool for long time, it disappears to the island of lost toys or something.
|
|
|
|
Post by kkbhf on Jun 26, 2015 0:58:26 GMT
Grasping a straws here. On my gen. there's a linkage to the carb that changes engine power as the electrical load varies. Anything like that on yours which might shut down the carburetor?
ETA: Is the throttle control to the carburetor working.
|
|
|
|
Post by fordy on Jun 26, 2015 1:16:47 GMT
...............Most of these small Chonda clones are designed to run around 3600 rpm , + or - the load that the load that the gen set is laboring under . I have a Champion , 8 years old , that ran fine until last summer , then the ethanol in the gas finally gummed up the carb and now I've got to remove same and clean it up . I , always turned off the gas and let the engine run until it ran all the gas out of the carb . ...............If , your engine runs fine with starter fluid , then dies , it seems like something is shutting off the air to the engine or maybe you have an out of adjustment throttle control linkage that is malfunctioning for some reason . I'd try and call the company rep here in the USA and ask them to pay for a repair at an engine shop that they approve of . I'm assuming it is still under some kind of warranty . , fordy |
|
|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Jun 26, 2015 10:49:24 GMT
Grasping a straws here. On my gen. there's a linkage to the carb that changes engine power as the electrical load varies. Anything like that on yours which might shut down the carburetor? ETA: Is the throttle control to the carburetor working. Yep governor is working, can see linkage moving as well as throttle shaft on carb. |
|
|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Jun 26, 2015 11:20:50 GMT
...............Most of these small Chonda clones are designed to run around 3600 rpm , + or - the load that the load that the gen set is laboring under . I have a Champion , 8 years old , that ran fine until last summer , then the ethanol in the gas finally gummed up the carb and now I've got to remove same and clean it up . I , always turned off the gas and let the engine run until it ran all the gas out of the carb . ...............If , your engine runs fine with starter fluid , then dies , it seems like something is shutting off the air to the engine or maybe you have an out of adjustment throttle control linkage that is malfunctioning for some reason . I'd try and call the company rep here in the USA and ask them to pay for a repair at an engine shop that they approve of . I'm assuming it is still under some kind of warranty . , fordy Yea that was what I thought. But carb is good, slapped it on another clone engine and that engine runs fine with it. And if the "intake manifold" (dont know what else to call it?? really just hole on side of the head) that carb bolts to is plugged, then how does air and starting fluid getting to the cylinder? Way its acting, should either be some big mud daubber nest blocking things or else cracked head letting lot extra air inside.... I'll look yet again this morning before the rains come. And like I say, this was cheapest generator this size I have ever seen. Sold by some "liquidation marketing firm" so doubt they budgeted for repair centers or anything like that. And if they did have such, I'd probably be on hook for shipping it there which would cost more round trip than whole generator cost. You gotta pay full retail at local store to get that kind of service and even then warranty usually has enough loopholes to make any lawyer smile. I gambled to get the incredibly low price so once it showed up at my door it is entirely my problem. The nice thing about the clone engines is that at worst you can replace one with brand new one for $100. Well assuming this one is typical and doesnt have some special tapered shaft or something. $100 would just bring it back to normal price for one of these. And at worst I suspect one could just replace the head if there is some crack or unintended warped surface allowing big air leak. I even have a used clone that I cant use cause I bought it without noticing previous owner removed governor, so as to get illusion of more power on go kart. Never occurred to me somebody would remove governor on small engine so hadnt looked. It runs ok but without governor isnt useful for much other than go kart. I keep hoping I run across clone with hole in the block for couple bucks that still has governor assembly it can donate. Anyway if necessary, can use head off engine missing governor if necessary. Just buy a new head gasket.... |
|
|
|
Post by Ozarks Tom on Jun 26, 2015 15:13:11 GMT
Most generators have "low oil" switches to keep the unit from running dry. Don't know what they cut off, but it won't run if the switch says it's low.
|
|
|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Jun 26, 2015 16:21:52 GMT
Most generators have "low oil" switches to keep the unit from running dry. Don't know what they cut off, but it won't run if the switch says it's low. I keep wanting to blame it on low oil switch. But doesnt that ground out the ignition? So how then would it be able to keep running using starting fluid? Gotta be big air leak I am not seeing, but dang, not feeling greatest right now so maybe has to wait until tomorrow. Like say, if I end up having to swap out cylinder head, then so be it. I have that used one. Also priced new bare one on ebay, its less than $20 plus gaskets either way. At least these engines are simple to work on and parts are cheap if you have patience to wait on the slow boat from China. Actually most parts are available from sellers in USA, but sometimes significantly cheaper buying directly from some individual in China. |
|
|
|
Post by Ozarks Tom on Jun 27, 2015 0:21:53 GMT
I'm wondering if the low oil switch doesn't take some time to sense lack of pressure before shutting down. When you said it just stopped with no sputtering it sounded like a switch.
|
|
|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Jun 27, 2015 11:43:42 GMT
It stopped dead when I stopped misting it with starting fluid. I keep misting it, it keeps running. It wont cough, sputter or any other signs of life without starting fluid.
|
|
|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Jun 28, 2015 13:18:46 GMT
I removed all gaskets and shields down to bare intake port on side of head. My thumb wouldnt completely cover it so used piece plastic bag. For sure its not sucking with much force on intake stroke. Therefore not pulling gas through the carburetor. Odd, still should get some gas through carb with choke closed???
But its got plenty compression at spark plug hole. So either bad head casting or valves are adjusted in some weird incorrect way. I find feeler gauge will make sure valves are adjusted and try it again. If no improvement, will pull the head. Sure I will find either crack or some fault in casting restricting the intake port.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rustaholic on Jul 21, 2015 1:22:26 GMT
Pretty good detective work. I am sure you are going to get to the bottom of it. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 2:21:56 GMT
Sounds like one I had, and the gas shut off valve had trash in it. Wide open and it wouldn't deliver gas to the carb. I took off the tank, gas lines, and cleaned it all out and it was ok.
|
|
|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Jul 21, 2015 13:23:03 GMT
But it should at least run initially with carb bowl full of gas? It simply wont run on gasoline, only starting fluid.
I am feeling better so I get a reasonably moderate hot day, will play with it more. I still suspect maybe poorly adjusted valves. Need to find a feeler gauge and test that before pulling the head.
|
|
|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Jul 22, 2015 15:34:24 GMT
So when did cheap set feeler gauges become an $8 item? I apparently am living in distant past when you could pick up cheap set for $1 or $1.50.... Though good set would last longer if you can keep track of them.
Well you still can get $2 set if you can wait on that slow boat from China. still dont see how I can have these small items individually shipped half way around the planet for far less than same thing is sold here. Metric though so have to remember to convert. Not sure what would be so hard for them to just stamp blades with both english and metric. But suppose these were made for use in a metric country and the english isnt required.
Just not feeling like going through storage shed looking for stuff, but at $8 its worth looking I guess. I have a quality USA made set someplace. Ordered one of the $2 ones just in case. These are like screwdrivers or hammers, can never have too many. Buy enough of them, and can always find at least one, though at that point in time, according to Murphy's law, the one I find will be the least desirable.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 4:23:13 GMT
John,
I must have 14 sets of feeler gauges here I would send to you at no charge...if I only knew where they were. I buy and sell for a living, and have seemed to come across more FG's recently, but I can't remember where I put them. I'm not kidding...I would really send you a set if I could find them.
They must be with my thread gauge set. I can't find mine anywhere!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Jul 23, 2015 8:09:05 GMT
Not to worry, I either find one of my sets, or the $2 Chinese set gets here first. Why I went ahead and ordered the $2 set, takes long time to get here, but cheap insurance I will eventually have a set to use. Had couple rainy not so hot days, but headed back to the brick oven weather. Dont know I will get anything done until September when it starts cooling down a bit.
I suppose really not much demand for feeler gauges anymore. Few people do their own mechanic work. And car engines havent needed regular valve adjustment for decades now. Last time I used feeler gauge was when I did valve job on a 300-6. Hydraulic lifters, but you still need to set them in after grinding valves and bolting head back on.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 15:33:03 GMT
I remember when the points were sticking on my '53 Ford, so I went to the parts house. After I took the cap off, I couldn't find my feeler gauge so I used a matchbook cover. Run pretty good until I got back to the parts house and got a gauge.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 17:59:39 GMT
Sure you just dont have some bad gas? Go get some high octane and a bottle of octane boost.
If you can get her started that way let it run out the tank. then try some different gas.
My small equipment was giving me grief, I found a station that sold pure gas, that fixed much of the issue.
On the lawn tractor I end up with gummy crap in the bowl, if it sets any period of time, have to pull it and clean it out.
Fuel lines also always seem to be a issue...
|
|
|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Jul 29, 2015 18:36:37 GMT
Brand spankin new engine. I put the first oil in it. And the first gas. Fresh gas. Stuff I use in the lawn mower, that has no problem starting and running on it.
I'd like to use the non-alcohol gas in my small engines, but only stations I know selling it are very out of the way. I do make special trip to get it for my chainsaw once a year. Chainsaw really doesnt like the alcohol. The lawnmower doesnt care that much, I just usually have to take off carb bowl and dump it if engine gets grumpy after setting unused for any significant period.
And yes match cover works for points. Not so much adjusting valves.
In modern world of crazy prices, patience is the key. That set feeler gauges on slow boat from China should get here about time weather moderates and I feel like actually messing with stuff. Simplest solution I see is to first adjust valves to spec if they arent already. If that doesnt work, pull the head and look for screwed up casting.
|
|
|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Aug 27, 2015 23:02:02 GMT
Finally got around to checking valve lash. Intake was spec. Exhaust was tiny bit off, but not enough to affect it running.
No change, it will start and run on starting fluid, wont pull enough gas through carb to run.
I also just for kicks, disconnected the low oil sensor. Didnt make any difference.
One of these days will pull the head and look for blockage or huge leak there. Other things of higher priority right now.
|
|
|
|
Post by copperkid3 on Aug 29, 2015 17:58:42 GMT
I can't wait until you find the answer....but guess I'll have to.
|
|
|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Aug 30, 2015 3:41:14 GMT
Yea, its a mystery. I can usually even get worn out junk engines to run for a little bit on their own, if they have spark and any compression left at all.
Has to be something unique for this engine to run on starting fluid but not be able to pull any gas through a carb off a known good running engine. At most cost me $5 for a new head gasket to swap heads with used engine I know to run but is missing its governor. Might even be able to salvage a gasket off one of the engines just to try head swap.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 23:50:42 GMT
...............Most of these small Chonda clones are designed to run around 3600 rpm , + or - the load that the load that the gen set is laboring under . I have a Champion , 8 years old , that ran fine until last summer , then the ethanol in the gas finally gummed up the carb and now I've got to remove same and clean it up . I , always turned off the gas and let the engine run until it ran all the gas out of the carb . ...............If , your engine runs fine with starter fluid , then dies , it seems like something is shutting off the air to the engine or maybe you have an out of adjustment throttle control linkage that is malfunctioning for some reason . I'd try and call the company rep here in the USA and ask them to pay for a repair at an engine shop that they approve of . I'm assuming it is still under some kind of warranty . , fordy And this is why I started running ethanol free in all small engines.
Rockpile
|
|
|
|
Post by graywolf on Sept 2, 2015 3:30:53 GMT
Bad casting? Is the intake port totaly open? Starting fluid is about 11,000,000 octane and already vaporized.
|
|
|
|
Post by hermitjohn on Sept 2, 2015 13:43:10 GMT
Bad casting? Is the intake port totaly open? Starting fluid is about 11,000,000 octane and already vaporized. Thats what I will find out when I pull head. Its either bad casting or I suppose some worker at factory could dropped something down intake before carb was installed. Something that partially blocks the passage. The starting fluid could get down around it, but with blockage, engine isnt making enough suction to draw gas through the carb. I've done valve job on some car engines where you find big chunks carbon blocking things. Course that is from engine running rich for lot miles I suppose. They run much much better with carbon removed, and the valve job of course. |
|
|
|
Post by graywolf on Sept 5, 2015 4:24:31 GMT
Did you figure it out?
|
|
