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Post by AD in WNC on Sept 27, 2015 14:27:01 GMT
kiwifarmgal I agree! If you have animals they must be fed and fed well. However I came to the point of why am I doing this? For me that point was why do I own sheep when I don't like the meat and am allergic to the wool and they cost me $50/mos in feed over and above the pasture? The final, final straw was that they were rescues and preferred dog food. I sold the young ones as a starter herd and butchered and sold the older ones in the city. What a hassle that was!
For me a better meat solution is rabbit. Easier to care for and lift. They love weeds and wheat fodder, and I have fresh meat quarterly. If I didn't work off of my farm, I think I could supply three days a week of rabbit meat for the cost of two bags of wheat seeds (November thru March for $25) and my time to pull weeds.
I do have chickens for eggs, and sell the eggs for $3/dzn. I don't break even on the feed costs, but I think they are good to have. If times got hard, I have enough space to put them into chicken tractors during the growing season and feed them soaked wheat seeds in the winter (a byproduct of the rabbit's fodder). I only have a few chickens but they provide another three days protein per week for very little cost or effort.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2015 23:56:50 GMT
Hi AD - yep, can understand why you quitted sheep. Definitely not a lot going for them in your case, LOL.
Rabbit is something most of us don't get to eat over here, although I have had it once or twice in my life, and enjoyed it. But it took me about 2 years to be able to eat our own sheep (it was our homekill butcher's salami recipe that convinced me...), so I think I'd have a huge problem eating something so way-cute as a rabbit. But it's a great idea, I must say. Hmmm, wonder how many rabbits it would take for a decent sized salami...
You made a really good point that I wasn't thinking of when I posted - that of 'if times got hard'. I can't think of a better reason to be able to grow your own food, be it meat, veges or fruit. Not sure what the excuse would be for having the dogs in that case, but perhaps guarding the sheep against poachers would fly? :-)
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Post by AD in WNC on Sept 28, 2015 1:44:01 GMT
KFG I am getting about 3 lbs per rabbit. How much meat do you use in you salami? Care to share the recipe? I live in semi rural mountains. My dogs serve as a deterent to neighborhood dog packs, possums, raccoons, fox, owls, hawks, coyotes and black bear. They help keep away the local drunks too. PS I send the rabbits out to be processed and they come back to me looking like "store" meat. Otherwise I would have trouble eating them too!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 5:59:22 GMT
Hi AD - I have no idea how much meat goes into the salami. The last time I got sheep done I put either 2 or 3 in the freezer. Got it all made into mince (hamburger, I think you call it), a couple of roasts and the rest into the salami - we usually order about 8 of them or so at a time - nice big long ones - and for those of you that are about to warn me about the dangers of eating processed meat - I know, but I'm NOT LISTENING, LOL. Like you, it comes back looking like store meat.
I'd love to share the recipe, but it's our homekill butcher's secret. :-)
There's a place in town that many of the restaurants buy from - you can get all sorts of goodies there that you don't find in normal supermarkets. I'm sure they'll have rabbit - next time I get a chance to do so, I'll check it out, and will be after you for a good recipe!!! :-)
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Post by dw on Sept 28, 2015 18:41:26 GMT
AS the last poster said...insurance is our killer. We do okay just wish we could save more but I'm working on it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 4:11:34 GMT
Awesome thread!
I applaud those who are living at $1,000 or less, and are happy.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 15:36:31 GMT
Awesome thread! I applaud those who are living at $1,000 or less, and are happy. Thank you Franklin!! For us, it is living. We are not just surviving, but living our life and are truly happy.
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Post by claytonpiano on Sept 29, 2015 22:09:13 GMT
The animals. I was complaining about chicken feed one day to my dad. He was in his 80's at the time. He chuckled and said, "We never fed ours anything except some corn in the winter." I kept asking about egg production, etc. and he laughed again. His comment was, so what if the eggs are fewer. I opened up the chicken coop then and let them range and withheld the feed for spring, summer, and fall after that. They still produce eggs......lots of them. I do not feed them anything except our scraps and black soldier fly larvae, Japanese beetles and garden scraps. We have been doing this for years. We do have a versatile breed that can fend for themselves. We did the same thing with the geese and the ducks. They forage and are really healthy. There are ways to do things where it costs very little money. Meat birds are never cost effective unless you can get the birds for free and are willing to move them in a chicken tractor each day. Then, you still do not make much money unless you can buy feed really cheaply. Turkeys.......they eat way more than you can get out of them. We raised 4 and could not buy enough feed to keep them full. They are EXPENSIVE.
Rabbits are cheap to raise as well. We do raise our feed for them and give them fresh greens from the greenhouse, hay and limited pellets. We mix up the greens etc so they get a good mix and combine that with BOSS. They seem healthy. Our doe is raising 8 very healthy babies right now. I have some pellets that i give on a limited basis, but this way we stretch the budget. Fodder is another great plan, particularly when we can pick up wheat for around $5 a bag on occasions.
Also, I try to never buy in a grocery store. Bulk buying from a restaurant supply is much cheaper.....even than Aldi's. The Mormon cannery has fantastic prices on staples that are hard to beat. The thing is, with food, you must get ahead and have plenty of storage to carry you through the lean months.
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Post by claytonpiano on Sept 29, 2015 22:23:03 GMT
Back now from thread drift to OP. We are off grid and sell any extra back to Duke Power. That REALLY helps. I turned the air conditioner on this summer and that is on-grid. We had to pay some for two months.
We raise most of our food. i buy grains, beans, and spices in bulk. That is a tremendous savings. I do watch the loss leaders in area grocery stores and sometimes purchase those, but avoid anything else. We eat seasonally. That saves so much money! We raise our vegetables and some fruit. We have the trees planted, but the draught this year was terrible on us. We had to buy deer apples for the fall applesauce, canned apples, etc.
Our expenses are insurance, gasoline, Internet, cell phones, some feed (pigs), medical (dentist and regular check-ups), clothing from Goodwill or yard sales, canning supplies in the form of lids, and this year we bought two cords of wood. Anything else is for farm improvements. Fencing is a fortune, stalls for goats, etc. Our rabbit cages came mostly from Craig's List. DH is a master at finding a deal.
Can we live on less than $1000 per month? No. Health insurance and long term care insurance prevent that. Both of my parents and their siblings had forms of dementia. The long term health insurance is so that my wonderful daughters can keep their sanity when I lose mine. I am hoping to be able to continue that until I die. It is worth it to me after what I went through. Other than insurance, gasoline, and some food and feed, we have very little monetary exposure at the moment. We worked hard to have the house paid off before retirement. Without a mortgage and living on a farm where clothing can have holes and stains saves a ton of money.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 23:56:44 GMT
I see it said repeatedly that eating seasonally saves money. I would love to start doing this but how can you know for the region/area you live in what is seasonal. For instance, I would venture a guess that keeping track of all veggies and fruits for one year, one can then tell when it is the cheapest. But outside of that how do you know? Especially for people such as our family who live in the city. I feel tomatoes, onions, potatoes are the same price year round. Right now I see tons and tons of people selling fire roasted chilies in stands or farmer's markets so to me that says those are seasonal right now. But outside of that? Do I have to wait to see the signs when people are selling off their corn and other produce or is there another way?
I have loved reading about the tips and experiences of all the posters in this thread. Living in the city, some of the information is relevant for us at this time, such as canning/food storage/buying seasonally/forgoeing cable (tv) etc to save money, while some of the information such as using gravity-fed wells/springs for water and/or solar panels is not very relevant at this time. It has been a joy to read it all, regardless!
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Post by jangirl on Sept 30, 2015 1:39:48 GMT
Rachel, it is difficult to tell when things are in season now that food is shipped all over the country and world, not like it used to be. I think I saw a chart--maybe in the Tightwad Gazette that listed some. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few, like strawberries are usually in about June, apples are fall crops, as are pears. Cranberries in the fall. Pork is usually cheapest in the fall. Corn is of course, more expensive in winter than in the mid/late summer when the crops ripen. Potatoes are fall crops. I'll see if I can find the list. I think you're wise to do what you can, even in the city. Some folks raise a lot of food on their balconies in the city!
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Post by terrilynn on Sept 30, 2015 11:29:46 GMT
I see it said repeatedly that eating seasonally saves money. I would love to start doing this but how can you know for the region/area you live in what is seasonal. For instance, I would venture a guess that keeping track of all veggies and fruits for one year, one can then tell when it is the cheapest. But outside of that how do you know? Especially for people such as our family who live in the city. I feel tomatoes, onions, potatoes are the same price year round. Right now I see tons and tons of people selling fire roasted chilies in stands or farmer's markets so to me that says those are seasonal right now. But outside of that? Do I have to wait to see the signs when people are selling off their corn and other produce or is there another way? I have loved reading about the tips and experiences of all the posters in this thread. Living in the city, some of the information is relevant for us at this time, such as canning/food storage/buying seasonally/forgoeing cable (tv) etc to save money, while some of the information such as using gravity-fed wells/springs for water and/or solar panels is not very relevant at this time. It has been a joy to read it all, regardless! I'm not sure how it is where you live but here in Michigan we have fruit orchards (you pick) and local veggie growers have small farm stores on their farms. If you can find anything like that in your area you can contact them and they will let you know what will be ripe at about what time of the year. Even if you have to drive a bit to get to them, if you get enough to can or freeze some the savings can really add up.
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Post by freelove on Sept 30, 2015 14:22:52 GMT
For eating seasonally do some research. Look at www.localharvest.org Go to a farmers market and ask questions, go to the gardening forum on this site, read a book on gardening or seasonal food.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2015 14:48:52 GMT
My "rule of thumb" in this region of the US where we have a 10-month growing season... And are centrally located for much imported fruits and veggies: When I go to the produce section of the grocery store, I only select the $0.99 per lb and under produce items. Last night I had a luscious Yellow Squash "casserole" because those were less expensive when I last hit the store. I also place $XX.xx in cash in an envelope for my monthly food budget, and THAT is all I get for the month. Lotsa beans.... Rice is inexpensive. Flour for Biscuits. Gravy. Yogurt, homemade, made from milk that was bought on sale, cheaper. That kinda thing.
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Post by nimrod on Sept 30, 2015 16:34:53 GMT
I live on less than $900 a month SS retirement.
If you own your own big propane tank you can shop around for the best price on propane. I fill my 250 gallon tank once every 2 years because I only use it for the cook stove. Propane is cheapest in the summer. The propane companies will deliver the propane for free when filling a big tank. I also have a valve and hose attached to the big tank so I can fill 5 pound to 100 pound tanks from it. Cost this past summer was about $1.20 a gallon to fill the big tank so to fill a 20 pound tank is $5.
My freezer more than pays for itself. I buy food on sale and freeze it. The store usually puts a particular item on sale again before I run out.
Buy the out of date canned goods. It is still perfectly good. The meat department has a section of close dated meat that is fine if you cook it or freeze it the same day.
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Post by barefootfarmer on Sept 30, 2015 17:17:07 GMT
It is tricky to know what is in season. I've gotten much better now that I grow so much of our own food. I used to think tomatoes were in season starting in May, if not year round. But nope- not in my corner of the world. July through late September without a green house.
I'd go on line and look for a chart specific to your area for local foods. Localharvest is a good one, like mentioned earlier. But even with that chart, some things are not accurate for my area with micro-climates, wind, etc.
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Post by manygoatsnmore on Sept 30, 2015 20:03:08 GMT
If the goal of eating in season is to eat more frugally, then the price you are paying is your guide. It makes sense that if you know the price for oranges around Christmas and the following month or two is 4#/$1, but in September those oranges will cost you .99/lb or more, then you know that the season for oranges is winter, not summer or fall. Apples are being harvested now, so the price is lower. The same apples in April will cost you more. (Who says you can't compare apples and oranges, lol.)
Take a look around the produce section, or farmer's market, if you have them available. Choose the lower priced fruits and vegetables. It's that simple when you are trying to decrease your food costs. There are some vegies that are typically always cheap in comparison to others. Carrots, potatoes and onions fall into that category.
Same thing at the meat counter - look for the cheaper cuts, and don't be afraid to try something new. Use less meat and use it as a flavoring rather than a main dish (I think that's been said on this thread several times, but it bears repeating). Another poster mentioned buying mark-down meats that are close to date. That meat is still good, but will need attention within a day or two of purchase. Either cook it or freeze it, and if you freeze it, mark it with a Sharpie on the label that it needs to be cooked as soon as it is thawed.
If you live where you can stop at the store each week, look at the sales for each store and shop the loss leaders. Plan your menu around those loss leaders and any in-store sales you find while shopping, or buy for the pantry shelf and freezer (or for canning, if you have the equipment). Then limit yourself to that one weekly shopping trip. Every time you set foot in the store, you are setting yourself up to bring home impulse buys, which will blow your budget.
I am well aware of my own failings in this area. I just did my first grocery shop in a month. I spent under $100 for groceries, junk food, drive thru hamburgers, and a Domino's pizza. Nearly half of my food spending was the junk food, hamburgers and pizza. If I was doing this every time I went to the store and was going to the store a couple times a week, my budget would be totally blown! I chalk up a splurge once a month more as entertainment than food, even though I include it in my food budget. At the same time, I am very conscious of knowing there is wiggle room in my food budget - I could do much better on my food spending.
If you are not able to shop loss leaders, then you are back to finding the store with the best overall prices in your area, as discussed above. Do your research! If you add up your savings after doing that research and find that you have saved $100 for doing 3 hours of researching different stores, you've essentially paid yourself $33hr for those 3 hours of going from store to store. That's not a bad hourly wage! Invest in yourself!
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Post by manygoatsnmore on Sept 30, 2015 20:23:10 GMT
Awesome thread! I applaud those who are living at $1,000 or less, and are happy. Thank you! I really enjoy my life. My needs are simple, and I really enjoy the "thrill of the hunt" when it comes to looking for bargains and ways to spend less, while still living a very rich life. There are just so many ways to enjoy life that do not involve a lot of $$. That leaves more $$ for when I do want to spend on something special, like taking a trip somewhere.
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Post by hermitjohn on Sept 30, 2015 21:19:52 GMT
If you own your own place outright and you live where the property taxes arent like paying rent, then its not that hard to live on less than $12k a year.
And those thinking long term care insurance is great, look out. First off you have to be at least upper middle class to afford the premiums, its very expensive insurance for what you get. The Mad Money tv show guy had it for his father I think. Well they reneged. Kinda stupid considering he has a widely watched nation wide tv show, but thats simply their buisiness model to renege if at all possible. Anyway he took them to court just on pure principle. He won and they paid. But he said it cost him as much in legal fees as what they paid out for the care. He said unless you are wealthy enough not to need it, then you cant afford it.
At least in blue states, Medicaid has been expanded to cover the lower income people including those making $12k a year. Though if you are retired, you would most likely have Medicare. Finding a doc that will take it as payment in full is another matter.... Now all but two of red states seem to want to spit on poor persons grave. They refused to expand Medicaid so you are screwed if you dont make enough to qualify for the federal subsidies for insurance. I think you have to make over $20k or maybe $25k to qualify for the subsidies. When Obamacare was written they had no idea states would refuse federal money to expand Medicaid just to play politics on the backs of the poor. Though since it passed with not one Republican in House or Senate voting for it, should been a big clue.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 0:52:36 GMT
Just had a great boost. With the interest rates here now down below 5% pa fixed for a reasonable period, I thought I'd check out what it would cost to re-adjust our mortgage deal. Even taking into account break fees and the refinance rate, doing so will save us $3350 per year. Multiply that by the 5 year period until it's all paid off and it comes to approx $16753. If we can lock a good deal of that away in actual savings, it'll reduce our mortgage period by at least another year on top of that.
Wow, sure pays to review these things!!! Otherwise it's just giving money to the bank for nothing. Guess who's happy dancing at the moment? :-) Just praying for continued good health and no real nasty surprises for 4 years...
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Post by farmgal on Oct 1, 2015 1:49:39 GMT
I go to a local food pantry that has big name brand stores perishables. I can feed a dozen hogs on what I could get. We used to raise hogs. It's just too much meat now.
We do have about 50 chickens on average. We switched to banty breeds only. They lay medium eggs. Only a few lay small. But we never buy more than 100# of feed a year. That's about 30$ here. We grow extra squash. We also get so much from the store surpluses free. Bread, vegetables etc. we only buy feed for convenience, when we're on vacation or if we want baby chicks to have fast grow feed. Large breed chickens eat way way too much. Switch to banties. You will be pleasently surprised. I will never go back to large breeds.
Great thread!
Koodoes to all who make a smaller foot print !
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 23:04:56 GMT
My very first chickens were second-hand banties! They are hardy, resourceful, intelligent (for a chicken) and surprisingly resilient little guys!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 2:37:17 GMT
I have to add that I have great respect for those who are intentionally living well below their means, and find happiness and joy in life.
I think we all have something to learn from you.
For so many in our society, life has become so much about what you can earn and spend, most often spending far above their means, and forgetting to appreciate their lives. Of course, to each their own. I have no criticism for others, but sometimes I do wonder about their happiness.
I went to college with a guy who sells cars, and I ran into him a few months ago. "The dealership owns me. I work 8 am to 9 pm, six days a week, and sometimes I go in on Sunday too." He went on about how he cleared $140,000 last year (pre-tax), about his three luxury cars, and his $320,000 home. After he talked for a while, he told me that he has virtually nothing in savings, "and not a dime in any type of retirement savings." He then added "I've spent my entire life working at the same dealership. I never had time to date much, never got married, and have no kids. I wish now that I would have had some kids."
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Post by hermitjohn on Oct 2, 2015 13:25:23 GMT
Anymore its not so much about building the better mousetrap and selling more product. Its about conning people into buying the mousetrap (with all the optional bells and whistles) on easy monthly payments and paying interest. I remember hearing few years back that the car companies made far more from their finance divisions than they did actually selling cars. Think thats true of whole economy. Most of the profit is from financing, not making/selling things.
There would be a very deep depression if most people in USA were like those on the homesteading forums and paid cash and wanted the most bang possible for the buck with no bells and whistles. Used it up and wore it out, no buying just for latest fashion to impress the neighbors.
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Post by jangirl on Oct 2, 2015 15:33:11 GMT
So true, Franklin and Hermitjohn! We are constantly looked down on by family for living simply the way we do. I don't care! One person confided to me that they hadn't planned well for their retirement and she 'would have to work until she died'. They have to get new, expensive cars every couple years, go out to eat and go gambling frequently, new clothes, hairdresser and nail salons, etc. I can't feel sorry for them.
Kiwifarmgirl, We did an adjustment to our mortgage too. I thought it was only for people who were in financial trouble, so hadn't checked into it earlier. Turned out you had to have good credit and be up to date on your payments. Dropped our interest rate to 3%, but we still pay the same as before, applying the extra to our principle. We're looking at less than 8 years to pay off our home and property, less every year as the balance decreases. It's wise to check it out!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 18:44:19 GMT
Way to go Jangirl!!! :-) I'm envious of your 3% interest, though, LOL. We're not so fortunate. It's amazing how paying off even a bit extra can make a difference - especially to the amount of interest payable over the life of the mortgage. With so many banks competing for business here, you can get holidays overseas, cash-backs, no charge to transfer mortgages, payment of break fees etc - just makes financial sense (not to mention good homesteading) to get the best bang for your buck, doesn't it? :-)
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Post by manygoatsnmore on Oct 2, 2015 19:27:26 GMT
Good point, jangirl and @kiwifarmgal, to refi to the lowest possible rate you can get (fixed rate, NOT adjustable), and to pay extra on the mortgage. The faster you pay down the principal, the more money you save on the interest portion of the mortgage. It is what I did. I refused to take a 30 year mortgage. 15 and 20 year terms are not that much more per month, and save you 10-15 YEARS of mortgage payments. That is a tremendous chunk of change! Even with a shorter mortgage term, I also paid extra each month to decrease the life of my loan. As my wages went up, I applied those increases to two areas of my life, retirement savings and paying off my mortgage faster. Arranging for those two areas to be deducted from my paycheck or bank account automatically kept me from being tempted by the increased income. I could still easily live on the "old" paycheck, so I didn't really miss the "new" amount. This paid off. In 11 years, I went from having no retirement and a mortgage and a few other debts, to being totally debt-free, owning my home, and able to take an early retirement offer from my hospital. Granted, I was also able to do that because I had an education and profession that allowed me to earn a good living and set that money aside, but even when I wasn't making a big salary, I was still able to do much more with my money because my needs were and are simple. From early in my marriage when I discovered garage sales, I bought most of what we needed second hand. I bargain shopped for groceries right from the start, and since I grew up in a home where we grew a garden, raised our own beef and milked our own cows, I was used to having a pantry and freezer full of food on hand. I stocked my pantry with as many of the bargains as I could, from the time I moved out on my own at 18. There was a time post divorce, when I was a single mom, going to nursing school and having to accept some government help in the form of cash and food stamps (back when food stamps were actual pieces of paper). I hear all the time that you can't live on food stamps...well, I beg to differ. I had more than enough FS to feed my family well, stock a pantry, buy fruit plants and food seeds, and still have about $1,000 in FS saved back when I no longer qualified for more government aid (and that was a happy day). That paid for another 6 months of food for my family. I know that with EBT and the use it or lose it rules, that is no longer an option for those who need food help, but even now, the amount allotted each month can be used to build a deep pantry.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 14:32:11 GMT
Insurance is killing all of us.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 14:41:27 GMT
Insurance is killing all of us. I've been uninsured for a couple years now... Since my back surgery. (Back surgery was paid for with cash, since BC/BS insurance wouldn't cover it!) I discovered that the "Affordable HealthCare" ISNT! And I am exempt from the penalties since I am a tribal-registered Indian (Native American). So I just go without. I spent most of my youth uninsured. Farm Supplies always had the basic needs for medical that I had... And I am smart enough to pay attention to my body and what it is telling me. It was a great stop-gap measure. And will be again. And now that internet pharmacies are quick and easy....
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Post by Skandi on Oct 3, 2015 16:43:19 GMT
Slight derailment, how much (ballpark figure) would health insurance in the US be for say a 30yr old female healthy nonsmoker yada yada yada? Before I moved I was paying (on minimum wage in the UK) about $208 a month total in income tax which of course includes healthcare. an average wage earner pays about $800 a month in income tax/National insurance payments, how does that compare to the US's system?
so maybe more fairly what % of an average earners paycheck goes straight to health insurance?
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