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Post by aoconnor on Nov 29, 2015 13:44:58 GMT
horseyrider, Thank you for an excellent post. You are right, if I let it slide and keep her on, it will only be more of the same. I will be very honest with her about why she isn't getting this job, and will hopefully get through her head that work isn't an option in life, it's a reality for all of us non-billionaires:-) Your boys sound fantastic! Way to go on their up-bringing in today's lazy society. My little 7 year old grand daughter out works the gal I hired by eons. My GD is a stall cleaning nut, has her own pitch rake and all. She gets stalls perfect, and loves doing the work. The water buckets are still too heavy for her to lift, but she gets a little stool and goes to each stall, stands on the stool, and fills all of them up with the hose. She helps feed, sweeps the feed room when we are done, and loves the work. She also likes helping me offload feed from my truck, and the little stinker can almost like a 50 lb feed bag by herself. I have to help a little, but she at least she tries to help every single time. Anyway, yes, the young woman needs to go, and she needs to know why. She was definitely more interested in riding my horses than taking care of them. Here's my GD starting on stalls. My horses all give her space when she is around them, and I am always close by.
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Post by horseyrider on Nov 29, 2015 16:09:54 GMT
aoconnor, that brings a smile to my heart! What a little cutie with her own fork! You're doing right by her, and one day she'll look back and realize that she wasn't really cleaning stalls, she was learning how to take responsibility and earn reward. That is a gift to her beyond measure. Well done, Grandma!
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Post by manygoatsnmore on Nov 29, 2015 23:57:44 GMT
aoconnor, I couldn't agree more with horseyrider's post. And I absolutely love that pic of your dgd goin' at it with the stall fork. She's so proud of herself - you can read it all over that big grin. What a cutie. I would not only tell the young lady why you are letting her go, I would suggest holding an exit interview with a written evaluation and have her sign it. Give her a copy of it. Hopefully, at some point, she will read it over a few times and figure it out. She may not "hear" all that you say at the time, hence the written eval.
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Post by motdaugrnds on Nov 30, 2015 20:02:40 GMT
You certainly are having your patience taxed by that 18 yr old. Yes, as we get older, we are not as tolerant; however, you've given her many chances to follow directions. I hope she has learned something about discipline from working for you. (I actually think she was very fortunate to have had the opportunity to learn from someone as nice as you are.)
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Post by aoconnor on Dec 1, 2015 0:58:31 GMT
You certainly are having your patience taxed by that 18 yr old. Yes, as we get older, we are not as tolerant; however, you've given her many chances to follow directions. I hope she has learned something about discipline from working for you. (I actually think she was very fortunate to have had the opportunity to learn from someone as nice as you are.) She taxed it out today. I let her come up again for one more, to be absolutely certain, day. She did an ok job in the barn, not great, not terrible. She did show up without calling or texting first to see if she should come to work today, that was progress. She only remembered 1 of the 2 things I asked her to do before she left. I texted her this evening to let her know I don't need help tomorrow as I have turned my barn horses out for the evening since it isn't bad weather and there is grazing grass still out there. No stalls to clean tomorrow, no buckets to re-set. She responded with "Alrighty then...are you saying you don't need help anymore?" I said, "No, I said that tomorrow there will be nothing to do at the barn and it's too wet to ride or work horses. I am hard pressed to find barn chores on a daily basis, that's all". I haven't heard back:-) I did tell her plainly that the ad I placed was for RANCH help, plus housekeeping if it was a married couple. She has no interest in anything but the barn stuff, and I was trying to accommodate that and maybe hire an older man to do the other work, but really, I need one person who can do all of the outside and a woman to be a housekeeper, rather than having to pay multiple people for small portions of the work. This is it, no more excuses. I am calling her and letting her go.
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Post by aoconnor on Dec 1, 2015 1:01:30 GMT
aoconnor , I couldn't agree more with horseyrider 's post. And I absolutely love that pic of your dgd goin' at it with the stall fork. She's so proud of herself - you can read it all over that big grin. What a cutie. I would not only tell the young lady why you are letting her go, I would suggest holding an exit interview with a written evaluation and have her sign it. Give her a copy of it. Hopefully, at some point, she will read it over a few times and figure it out. She may not "hear" all that you say at the time, hence the written eval. She could truly care less. She is 18 and knows it all. I am just an old fool who owns a large horse ranch, doctors them all, is a nutritionist for each individual horse, has a stringent feed/meds/supplement program I stick to like glue, and raise, train, breed, show, work all of them that are able to be ridden/worked myself. What do I know?!:-) After her attitude today, she isn't getting much from me but a check and a goodbye. I can't wait for my grand daughter to grow a little more! She LOVES working hard out there and is always the last one in with me at night when her mom lets her spend the night. She can't get enough of working, riding, and handling my horses. She's a hoot!
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Post by motdaugrnds on Dec 1, 2015 15:37:32 GMT
Hun, that 18 yr old sounds like she may have some learning disorder, which could easily account for the absentmindedness she has exhibited around chores. I kind of feel bad for her. Still you need to do what you need to do to get your place tended...You're fortunate to have a grand daughter like the one you say is a "hoot". She's also cute.
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Post by aoconnor on Dec 1, 2015 16:08:17 GMT
Hun, that 18 yr old sounds like she may have some learning disorder, which could easily account for the absentmindedness she has exhibited around chores. I kind of feel bad for her. Still you need to do what you need to do to get your place tended...You're fortunate to have a grand daughter like the one you say is a "hoot". She's also cute. I believe it's called "cellphoneitis", also referred to as "textaholic". The two things I asked her to do were sweep the feed room and take a blanket off a mare. I texted it to her, all she had to do was read the text before leaving to be sure she had done those 2 things. I am ok with the outcome, but wish I hadn't spent the money!
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Post by wildhorseluvr on Dec 1, 2015 17:56:10 GMT
Hun, that 18 yr old sounds like she may have some learning disorder, which could easily account for the absentmindedness she has exhibited around chores. I kind of feel bad for her. Still you need to do what you need to do to get your place tended...You're fortunate to have a grand daughter like the one you say is a "hoot". She's also cute. I believe it's called "cellphoneitis", also referred to as "textaholic". The two things I asked her to do were sweep the feed room and take a blanket off a mare. I texted it to her, all she had to do was read the text before leaving to be sure she had done those 2 things. I am ok with the outcome, but wish I hadn't spent the money! I have to agree with aoconner. I've noticed a strange disability (mostly affects the younger generation) which involves serious hearing and memory impairment when given orders or instructions, especially if it relates in any way to the word "work". However, the hearing and memory improve drastically whenever words such as "fun, mall, eating out, movies, games and money" are mentioned. When dealing with your own, withholding allowances & privileges and requiring tasks to be repeated until done properly is the best therapy. Some of our family members own a business and have occasionally hired older teens/young adults. ONE was a keeper, and is still there after probably 8 yrs or more. The others...meh. Cell phone use is a huge problem (although that is occasionally a problem with older employees as well). "Forgetting" to do their assigned work, "forgetting" everyday rules, texting/talking/standing around when they're supposed to be working, etc. are ongoing issues. I'm pretty certain future job applicants will need a number of years of excellent work history to stand any chance of being hired there. Unfortunately that will eliminate most young adults. Employers are not indulgent parents, they hire people to work, not be a drain on the business. Employers can't afford to wait for people to grow up.
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Post by PNP Katahdins on Dec 1, 2015 18:34:42 GMT
Aoconnor, maybe she'll be dumb enough to use you as a reference for her next job application.
Peg
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Post by countrymom22 on Dec 2, 2015 2:46:01 GMT
Sorry it's not working out. I think part of your frustration is because you have tried to help her and cut her a break and she doesn't appreciate it. I know I hate to be wrong about someone.
You did all you can. You gave her a second chance. She didn't take advantage of it.
It's time to cut her loose and find someone who can do the job that you need done.
Good luck!
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Post by motdaugrnds on Dec 2, 2015 15:10:18 GMT
I cannot deny what I'm seeing in America, i.e. unruly and unappreciative children. I know they're having a hard time with so much to deal with...much more than those of age dealt with. And so many unknown chemicals affecting them at every turn, if not in their foods and atmosphere, then in the instruments they use to live in this high-tech world. I feel for them! However, all that does not justify behavior. (No matter what we've all dealt with and are dealing with, we are still responsible for choices we make.)
There certainly is no need for you to feel badly, Aoconnor. You did much more than what many adults would have done to help her.
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Post by aoconnor on Dec 2, 2015 23:02:36 GMT
motdaugrnds, Yes, it is a sad thing happening in our country. We have some really fantastic young men that work for us in our construction company, most of them came to us young and have trained with my husband. Several have been here for years, one is our son in law:-) two are his brothers! We have a few other young men in their 20's and several older guys that mentor them while they work with them. It is a great thing to see these guys come along and turn into men their families can be proud of. But the young woman I hired wasn't one that wanted more than money. And a lazy gal at that. So I am looking again:-)
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Post by bergere on Dec 3, 2015 11:33:48 GMT
Its ok to Vent, is frustrating.
Sadly, this happens a lot.
Know a number of Icelandic horse farms, that have been bringing in young folks from other countries (Iceland, Germany Sweden), to work with the Icelandic's. Some, because trying to find locals to do farm work and have them do the work is nearly impossible.
In a couple of years, I will be looking to have someone come here and do some work... not looking forward to that.
(when I worked for private barns, I busted my backside, always did what needed to be done, and IF I had extra time, would do a little extra work)
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Post by aoconnor on Dec 3, 2015 14:01:59 GMT
bergere, I am ready to hire anyone from anywhere so long as they are honest and have a good work ethic. Until then, thank God for a very pleasant, mild winter so far!
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Post by aoconnor on Dec 4, 2015 1:03:36 GMT
I think I am going insane. The young woman texted me today (I haven't been in touch with her since the "Alrighty Then" text from her on Monday night other than when she asked if I needed her Wednesday and I just replied no. This afternoon she texted me and said she would be willing to clean my house a couple of times a week, and did I still need that done. I replied and said that if she would clean a couple times a week and do barn chores a couple or three times a week, she could come back up. She texted back ok, and then said they were really struggling with her not working, and she was glad to come back up to work.
Maybe, after everything, she found some value in being in a bad spot, and came around to seeing that a job is something you must have in order to EAT, pay bills, etc. I'm giving her a third chance, and I honestly do hope she will see clear to do a better job and have a better attitude. Maybe so, maybe not, but I am a Christian and the Bible says when your neighbor (and everyone is my neighbor!) asks for help, you help them. So since she asked me for help, I will help her. And I will vent here as needed:-)
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Post by copperkid3 on Dec 4, 2015 1:46:41 GMT
I think I am going insane. The young woman texted me today (I haven't been in touch with her since the "Alrighty Then" text from her on Monday night other than when she asked if I needed her Wednesday and I just replied no. This afternoon she texted me and said she would be willing to clean my house a couple of times a week, and did I still need that done. I replied and said that if she would clean a couple times a week and do barn chores a couple or three times a week, she could come back up. She texted back ok, and then said they were really struggling with her not working, and she was glad to come back up to work. Maybe, after everything, she found some value in being in a bad spot, and came around to seeing that a job is something you must have in order to EAT, pay bills, etc. I'm giving her a third chance, and I honestly do hope she will see clear to do a better job and have a better attitude. Maybe so, maybe not, but I am a Christian and the Bible says when your neighbor (and everyone is my neighbor!) asks for help, you help them. So since she asked me for help, I will help her. And I will vent here as needed:-) Far be it from me to tell you how to run your business or who you should or shouldn't hire or fire, but my suggestion would be, that if you are planning on giving her yet another chance, that you sit down with her 1-on-1 and "communicate" exactly what you expect from her for the tasks that you want done. It appears that she doesn't know what you want, or even if she isn't supposed to be working for you anymore.....you haven't been that clear on it with us either, otherwise, one would think, (as I and I'm sure others have as well) that she'd already been given her walking papers days ago. I've certainly been under that impression on more than one occassion reading on this, but then a short time later, it's back to the same ole, same ole.... You're going to have to be fair and consistent with her in a complete understanding of what you want done and when it needs to be done......or her services are no longer needed. Finished, End of story. Adious, Good-bye. Anything else sends a mixed message and is a disservice to all parties involved. Please don't take this personally, as it's needful for many to understand that the employer is STILL the boss and not the other way around. Good luck in however this turns out. Here's hoping for the best.
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Post by aoconnor on Dec 4, 2015 3:17:21 GMT
copperkid3, I appreciate your post, but let me assure you...I have been extremely clear with the young lady about the work she was supposed to be doing, I worked with her myself and showed her precisely how I wanted things done, and she in turn has neglected those duties and direction several times, has been disrespectful and lazy, and I have told her very clearly that she was fired, twice. The first time I told her it just wasn't going to work out, mainly because I sensed very quickly that she really just wanted to do the barn chores and work with the horses, and had little to no interest in the housekeeping portion of the work I need done. I had placed an ad for a groundskeeper who was possibly married and whose wife may be interested in doing housework as well as part time barn chores, and the young woman responded to that ad in hopes of just getting the barn work. After thinking it over, watching her the first day, and knowing what my tolerance level for lazy is, I decided I would let her go and find the people I really needed. After thinking about it a few days, I texted her and asked if she would do the housekeeping work as well as the barn chores. I could try to hire a groundskeeper if she was willing to do the other two things I needed done, and she agreed so I brought her back on. She worked Thursday and Friday and did well enough. Monday was fine as well, but on Tuesday when I told her the next day would be a house work day, she looked blank and didn't reply. I know she was out that night roping with her boyfriend, no big deal. But on the following day she texted me that she was running a fever and had chills and was nauseated. I doubt it, but have no proof. I let it slide. Friday she texted me to see if she needed to come to work because it was raining. Uh, yes! I told her yes, there were still barn chores to do even in the rain, so she reluctantly came up. She made a halfhearted effort and left early. Monday she came to work and was rather disrespectful in a few ways, but again, I let it slide. I had meetings that day in town and I had to be gone some, so I asked her to finish stalls (we had been cleaning stalls together), and I got ready to go. I texted her with two simple jobs to do before she headed out for the day. One was sweep the feed room, and the other was remove a blanket from my mare on the top pasture. I had already removed all blankets from all of my other horses that morning while the young lady did a couple of other things, but I didn't have time to get the last one off. It was going to be quite warm that day and I never keep blankets on unless it's cold and wet. She texted me that afternoon and said she forgot to take the blanket off, and by the time I got home my mare was hot. I had only asked for two simple things to be done while I was gone. I clearly told her in the text what to do. I can't have someone neglect to do the small things, those small things are what are most important some days. I have a large commercial/heavy industrial construction company and run many employees. I also co-own an engineered product manufacturing company. I am a good employer, kind and fair, but I expect respect and hard work, which is no less than I do daily. This young woman does neither, but that she asked me for help I am taking her back for the third time and am hoping she has been humbled enough to actually give a care about the work she is doing. My ranch is a horse rescue/rehabilitation haven for the worst of the worst abused, neglected, or injured horses. I work with two counties, multiple vets, and other horsemen and women in my community to help however many horeses I can. It is hard, backbreaking work to run this big of a ranch, and since my husband is understandably consumed with our other businesses, I do all of the ranching myself. We also run a small herd of beef cattle, so I have that task to do as well. While I know that it is my passion, not someone else's, I do expect others to at least respect my ranch, my horses, and my wallet. All that being said, I am first a Christian, and when anyone asks me for help, I help them. This young woman asked, so I will give her another shot. Whether she will make it or not I can't say, but am willing to try one more time.
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Post by manygoatsnmore on Dec 4, 2015 3:59:08 GMT
I hope she knows it's three strikes and you're out. Sometimes being a Christian means doing what is best for the person you are trying to help, and sometimes that help is tough love...if they are not willing to work, they will not have a job.
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Post by copperkid3 on Dec 4, 2015 4:22:22 GMT
copperkid3 , I appreciate your post, but let me assure you...I have been extremely clear with the young lady about the work she was supposed to be doing, I worked with her myself and showed her precisely how I wanted things done, and she in turn has neglected those duties and direction several times, has been disrespectful and lazy, and I have told her very clearly that she was fired, twice. The first time I told her it just wasn't going to work out, mainly because I sensed very quickly that she really just wanted to do the barn chores and work with the horses, and had little to no interest in the housekeeping portion of the work I need done. I had placed an ad for a groundskeeper who was possibly married and whose wife may be interested in doing housework as well as part time barn chores, and the young woman responded to that ad in hopes of just getting the barn work. After thinking it over, watching her the first day, and knowing what my tolerance level for lazy is, I decided I would let her go and find the people I really needed. After thinking about it a few days, I texted her and asked if she would do the housekeeping work as well as the barn chores. I could try to hire a groundskeeper if she was willing to do the other two things I needed done, and she agreed so I brought her back on. She worked Thursday and Friday and did well enough. Monday was fine as well, but on Tuesday when I told her the next day would be a house work day, she looked blank and didn't reply. I know she was out that night roping with her boyfriend, no big deal. But on the following day she texted me that she was running a fever and had chills and was nauseated. I doubt it, but have no proof. I let it slide. Friday she texted me to see if she needed to come to work because it was raining. Uh, yes! I told her yes, there were still barn chores to do even in the rain, so she reluctantly came up. She made a halfhearted effort and left early. Monday she came to work and was rather disrespectful in a few ways, but again, I let it slide. I had meetings that day in town and I had to be gone some, so I asked her to finish stalls (we had been cleaning stalls together), and I got ready to go. I texted her with two simple jobs to do before she headed out for the day. One was sweep the feed room, and the other was remove a blanket from my mare on the top pasture. I had already removed all blankets from all of my other horses that morning while the young lady did a couple of other things, but I didn't have time to get the last one off. It was going to be quite warm that day and I never keep blankets on unless it's cold and wet. She texted me that afternoon and said she forgot to take the blanket off, and by the time I got home my mare was hot. I had only asked for two simple things to be done while I was gone. I clearly told her in the text what to do. I can't have someone neglect to do the small things, those small things are what are most important some days.
I have a large commercial/heavy industrial construction company and run many employees. I also co-own an engineered product manufacturing company. I am a good employer, kind and fair, but I expect respect and hard work, which is no less than I do daily. This young woman does neither, but that she asked me for help I am taking her back for the third time and am hoping she has been humbled enough to actually give a care about the work she is doing. My ranch is a horse rescue/rehabilitation haven for the worst of the worst abused, neglected, or injured horses. I work with two counties, multiple vets, and other horsemen and women in my community to help however many horeses I can. It is hard, backbreaking work to run this big of a ranch, and since my husband is understandably consumed with our other businesses, I do all of the ranching myself. We also run a small herd of beef cattle, so I have that task to do as well. While I know that it is my passion, not someone else's, I do expect others to at least respect my ranch, my horses, and my wallet. All that being said, I am first a Christian, and when anyone asks me for help, I help them. This young woman asked, so I will give her another shot. Whether she will make it or not I can't say, but am willing to try one more time. I read your original post and appreciate the time that you took to rewrite it again. However, it really hasn't changed my opinion on the matter. I think there was something said before, about "sending mixed messages" and being "consistent". Perhaps you can look at the highlighted items above and tell me what message you've been conveying to her? Are you REALLY helping her, because in the reality of her REAL WORLD, all that she's learned, is how to manipulate you? Here's hoping that 3rd times the charm....
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Post by aoconnor on Dec 4, 2015 13:10:37 GMT
copperkid3, Thanks again for your input. What I say here on the board, and how I deal with and talk to the young woman, are two different things. I'm more free here to vent and whine:-). I will keep your points in mind however, and make sure I am being clear and straight forward with her. Part of my frustration is that we, my husband and I, are always willing to help young people get going in life. We have many that work in our construction company that came in fits and starts but have grown into good men and great employees. But to be be honest, and this sounds rotten I know, construction workers can be had at the day temp service a whole lot easier than a ranch hand:-). If one of our guys quit, we can replace him short term with a temp laborer or carpenter, whatever...Ranching is personal, it involves live creatures that need certain types of care, that need watched over carefully and tended to well. If I can't get that kind of work from someone on my ranch, then I have to find someone else to work here, but those people are few and far between. So I try to take what I can get and work with it, but it is very frustrating when it's just a job to someone else, when it's my life work to me. So my relenting and wanting to both help this gal, as well as train her to be a good worker in her life, is two fold. I want her to learn how an employer will act should she not do her job, but yet she is a young girl, away from her parents, with a guy who may or may not love her for the right reasons, and I feel for her in my heart. I have clearly told her what I want, and she slacked on it and didn't prove out. But she is the one who came back to me and asked for help, for a job, and I hope and pray she has understood that screwing off and not caring cost her something. I will sit her down this morning and talk to her again, let her know where I stand with her and where she stands with me. If she will go forward and let me help her, fine. If not, fine. I will let her know both of those things:-) I do appreciate the responses I have received. I don't talk to anyone in my community about my life like I do with you guys, and my husband is already weighted down enough carrying the care and worry and concern for so much. He carries the construction and manufacturing companies on his shoulders...it is our name out there and we work hard to maintain our high standards and integrity in the life we live. Our guys and gals that work for us are with us for those reasons, and because we actually care about them and help them improve their own lives in many ways. So my heart and goals are in the right place, I get frustrated when a young woman with potential is off track and wobbling around in life, because I care about her and her future even if she has no clue of that right now. And she just texted me that her dog is sick, can she come out at 10 instead of 8. Sigh.
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Post by Melissa on Dec 4, 2015 14:06:55 GMT
I know you want to help and I might be wrong, but it honestly sounds like she is just going to cause you a lot of ongoing stress... Sounds like you need someone a little older- are there any stay-at-home Moms who need to pick up a few days work? Maybe 2-3 ladies together could cover the job? Sometimes people don't want to work every day but could do a few days a week.
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Post by mollymckee on Dec 4, 2015 17:05:32 GMT
I would be afraid to leave her at my house, alone. It sounds like you are going to have to help her do the housework so she understands what to do. If she has grown up in with a mother that didn't clean very well or didn't expect her to help, she might be truly clueless. If she is just lazy, it is not too far a leap from stealing by not working for the money she expects to helping herself to things that are yours. You have way more patience than I do,
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Post by aoconnor on Dec 4, 2015 17:14:51 GMT
mollymckee, Yes, I do worry about her in my house, and I probably will be working with her each time she cleans, though that isn't my long term goal so we will see how it works. I had a good talk with her a little while ago, she seemed to lighten up and actually grasp what I was saying, but time will tell!
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Post by mollymckee on Dec 13, 2015 23:26:20 GMT
How is she doing, or did you have to get rid off her? aoconnor,
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Post by aoconnor on Jan 14, 2016 1:25:48 GMT
How is she doing, or did you have to get rid off her? aoconnor , mollymckee, Well...lets just say I let her go:-) I just got more and more annoyed, the final straw was when she told me 3 days before Christmas that she and the boyfriend were going to Idaho for 2 weeks, then she was totally distracted the day after that when she was here. She was supposed to be back on Monday after the 1st, but at midnight Sunday night she texted me to say they were running late and the drive was longer than they thought and she would be too tired to work on Monday and she would see me Tuesday. (um, they drove up there 2 weeks earlier, surely they remembered how long it took, seriously?!). I texted her back that she was fired. I needed someone reliable and she was not that someone. I feel a lot better:-) So I am looking again. Melissa, I might find a housekeeper that is an older lady, but honestly, the barn work is very, very hard, has to be done in all weather no matter what, and I need someone who is tough and horse savvy. I haven't found anyone like that yet, but I'm all for anyone who thinks they can come do that a few days a week at least. So far, the best barn help I have found is still my 7 year old grand daughter! She is a great vet tech:-) helps me when I change bandages on the gelding I am fostering, and she loves doing supplements in feed when we feed together. She is a great "mixer upper" of the bucket contents, and she knows all the horses and which bucket goes where (I have horse names on each bucket for when I have feeding help). Wish she was older and ready for a real job, I'd hire her in a heartbeat!!
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Post by countrymom22 on Jan 14, 2016 2:42:30 GMT
Sorry she didn't work out, but I think you knew it was going this way. You did all you could, but you have jobs that need to be done, and you can't babysit your employees.
Best of luck finding the right person/people to meet your needs!
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