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Post by willowgirl on Aug 23, 2016 3:09:59 GMT
Over the weekend, Bridget (a nice young cow in the herd that I milk) gave birth to a set of B/H twins. Bridget's mom, Betsy, was a twin, and had a pair of B/H twins herself about a month ago. It was her second set -- last year, she had a B/B/ pair! Betsy's twin sister Lizzie has had only single calves, but her eldest daughter, Petal, had a pair of B/B twins when she was a heifer. That's a lot of double trouble!!!
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Post by aoconnor on Aug 23, 2016 22:25:07 GMT
Sounds like a lot of fun though:-)
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Post by countrymom22 on Aug 24, 2016 1:42:42 GMT
That's a lot of twins! I thought a heifer calf with a bull twin would be infertile. At least that is what I was told back in the day. Apparently not!
Enjoy, and we need pictures!
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Post by Awnry Abe on Aug 24, 2016 2:36:55 GMT
Gee whiz. Must be some goat---or worse--cat genetics in that line to get the tulples.
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Post by willowgirl on Aug 24, 2016 3:17:52 GMT
Yes, a heifer born as a twin to a bull is usually a freemartin. My boss decided to keep Betsy's heifer twin, though, as she was in a separate amniotic sac. He read somewhere that if the calves aren't in the same sac, there is less chance the male hormones will contaminate the heifer. I was glad he did -- she's a cute little thing! Hopefully we can make a cow of her. Lizzie is dry right now -- in fact, we dried her off a bit early, as her milk had fallen off. She's huge! I'm wondering how many calves are in there ... lol.
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Post by willowgirl on Aug 25, 2016 3:57:30 GMT
I'm not sure! That's a good question. Maybe someone will come along and enlighten us?
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Post by barefootfarmer on Aug 25, 2016 4:27:48 GMT
Back in June we had our farm's first set of twins born to our Jersey Boots. Not only did she have twin heifers, but she had them on my birthday I'm not sure where the twin gene came from, but it would be pretty neat to have another set down the road.
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Post by paquebot on Aug 25, 2016 5:11:15 GMT
Bing or Google "Twins share amniotic sac" and it will say that monoamniotic twins will always be identical. (In humans they are referred to as "MoMo", Monoamnioic Monochorionic twins.) Being identical also means the same sex. All twins that we ever had were either B/B or H/H.
Martin
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Post by willowgirl on Aug 25, 2016 13:19:14 GMT
That's interesting, Martin! And I'm surprised that you had only single-gender pairs. I'd say B/H are most common where I work, followed by B/B. H/H pairs are rare as hen's teeth -- in fact, Betsy and Lizzie are the last set I can remember being born there, and they're going into their fourth lactation!
I *do* know that sometimes freemartin twins turn out to be normal reproductively, because when I was a tester, I had a herd that raised its freemartins, and it was not uncommon for them to calve into the milking string. (I'd discover that a fresh heifer had been a twin when I looked up her birth record to get her steel tag number for the DHIA.)
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Post by PNP Katahdins on Aug 26, 2016 21:57:11 GMT
I googled "twinner cattle" as this is a common issue in cattle, especially beef cattle. The University of Wisconsin-Madison does a lot of research in both dairy and beef cattle. I found this at www.ansci.wisc.edu/twin/index.html:Why Twinning? For beef cattle production, if you could have a cow produce two calves, obviously, you’d have more calves to market. You could do everything right in terms of management of cattle, in terms of reproduction, and the best you would ever do in the absence of twinning is one calf per cow. Well, if the cow has twins you’re greatly increasing the number of calves that are produced and increasing your revenue. This increase does come with the cost of better management and is not useful for all situations. Studying the genetics of twinning gives us a window into the genetic regulation of fertility in all cows - twinners and non-twinners. Understanding how cows get pregnant and stay pregnant will lead to better reproductive management for all cattle. Information from the cattle can be applied to other domestic species and even humans! Like all management tools, there are pros and cons to twinning. Remember, not so long ago shepherds were against twins in sheep. Peg (who loves twins and triplets in our sheep flock)
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Post by PNP Katahdins on Aug 26, 2016 22:03:00 GMT
And here is a link to more basic info on twinning cattle for anyone interested: www.twinnercattle.com/Interesting subject. I have been reading about this for over 20 years. Paul used to feed cattle out but never dairied on his own. He did work for uncles who milked. Peg, who had fraternal twin uncles of her own
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Post by willowgirl on Feb 16, 2017 5:14:31 GMT
Betsy and Lizzy were BOTH in heat last night! It would be cool if they both settled and then calved on the same day, wouldn't it? :-)
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Post by willowgirl on Feb 17, 2017 14:42:49 GMT
Oh my! What are the odds of THAT, eh?
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Post by Awnry Abe on Feb 23, 2017 4:13:35 GMT
How did I miss this thread for so long? I've got a FM that I decided to keep. I had to bottle raise her because her dam rejected her and raised the bull. Naturally, she got under my skin and has been a nuisance ever since. Always poking her nose in my business and messing with my mojo when I move pastures. She would be breeding age this year. She isn't right in the head, has thick brows like a bull, and an overly fuzzy watoosie. I'm not hopeful. But she is a sweetie. I call her Missy.
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Post by tab on Feb 25, 2017 15:31:36 GMT
AA, I have one of those, too! She has really stong heat cycles. Vet said because of the hairy bum, no go. I am going to ask vet again, Buttercup always has a lot of discharge with her cycle. She really is a likeable critter. I cannot imagine having a cow have twins. I am a wreck when one comes out! Maybe it is all the years of horses....
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Post by aoconnor on Mar 2, 2017 13:48:03 GMT
I have a friend whose cow twinned this past fall. She said they aren't even going to try keeping the heifer calf and breeding her later on down the road, it costs too much to keep and maintain a heifer for that long only to find she won't settle. I offered to buy the heifer myself and let her in with our younger bull when she is old enough, not sure they will go for that. If we have a heifer that won't settle, it's not a big deal because we only have 9 head to begin with and another one just hanging out won't be an issue.
I have seen a LOT of twins in cattle pastures this year when I'm driving around. One herd in particular, Black Angus first time heifers, there are at 4 or 5 sets of twins. Very odd, unless they used a bull that just has a high percentage of twins in his lineage. All are tiny, but the bull is a LBW bull most likely.
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Post by willowgirl on Mar 5, 2017 1:39:37 GMT
I can't imagine anyone breeding FOR twinning! We just lost a nice young cow who would have been in her second lactation, but after having twins (luckily heifers) she had a RP and developed milk fever. We pulled her through that, but she didn't make any milk. After a month, her bag was still like a cow who is about to go dry, so my boss finally put her on the truck. Heartbreaking. A pretty young cow. Same thing happened to Lizzy and Betsy's mom. I really, REALLY hate seeing twins ...
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Post by Awnry Abe on Mar 6, 2017 3:41:13 GMT
I can't imagine anyone breeding FOR twinning! We just lost a nice young cow who would have been in her second lactation, but after having twins (luckily heifers) she had a RP and developed milk fever. We pulled her through that, but she didn't make any milk. After a month, her bag was still like a cow who is about to go dry, so my boss finally put her on the truck. Heartbreaking. A pretty young cow. Same thing happened to Lizzy and Betsy's mom. I really, REALLY hate seeing twins ... Yep. I sometimes wonder, "Why four teats?" Why not 2, or 3, or 6? One possibility is twins, I presumed. But twinkles drags the girl down, sometimes to the point of death. Can't be that. After caring for a beef herd, I've concluded that it takes 2 to raise a calf, and 2 more for spares, because it ain't easy being a cow.
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Post by aoconnor on Mar 6, 2017 13:06:26 GMT
Awnry Abe, yep, takes more than one for sure! To raise a calf anyway:-). Gotta have those wonderful calf sitters that hang with the babies while mommas are out grazing. Funny, true story. We had a very small little herd, just 2 cows and their calves plus our bull. The cows were bred back, and the bull got a little wanderlust, so off her went. He was gone about a week, he had jumped to our neighbors and we got him trailered and hauled home as soon as we found him over there. Well, the cows were really glad to see him home! They fussed around him for about 20 minutes, then literally abandoned the calves with him for most of the rest of the afternoon while they went down into the bottom pastures and grazed happily away from the brats for a few hours (the calves weren't wee tiny, they were a few months old by then). Our bull just stood there with those two calves, bewildered, but stayed right there with them until the cows came back in. I guess they told him a thing or two about going after strange women and leaving them stuck at home with the children:-)
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Post by gracielagata on Apr 1, 2017 12:13:19 GMT
How did I miss this thread for so long? I've got a FM that I decided to keep. I had to bottle raise her because her dam rejected her and raised the bull. Naturally, she got under my skin and has been a nuisance ever since. Always poking her nose in my business and messing with my mojo when I move pastures. She would be breeding age this year. She isn't right in the head, has thick brows like a bull, and an overly fuzzy watoosie. I'm not hopeful. But she is a sweetie. I call her Missy. I have to ask... what exactly is an overly fuzzy bum on a cow? Don't they have fur there anyhow, aside from the digestive and reproductive tract parts, I imagine? Why does a bull have extra hair then, also? But I do like the image of a cow, overly fuzzy bummed or not, being nosy all over. My mare is like that.
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Post by willowgirl on Apr 1, 2017 13:22:16 GMT
Betsy and Lizzy both tested pregnant! What are the odds, eh? Now to see whether they calve at the same time. We had an excellent preg check this month, with only about 5 cows open out of 30 or so tested. And we're just starting to dry off the cows who were bred by the bull last summer. It's a little dicey because we're not sure exactly when a lot of them were bred!
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Post by Awnry Abe on Apr 2, 2017 2:31:15 GMT
How did I miss this thread for so long? I've got a FM that I decided to keep. I had to bottle raise her because her dam rejected her and raised the bull. Naturally, she got under my skin and has been a nuisance ever since. Always poking her nose in my business and messing with my mojo when I move pastures. She would be breeding age this year. She isn't right in the head, has thick brows like a bull, and an overly fuzzy watoosie. I'm not hopeful. But she is a sweetie. I call her Missy. I have to ask... what exactly is an overly fuzzy bum on a cow? Don't they have fur there anyhow, aside from the digestive and reproductive tract parts, I imagine? Why does a bull have extra hair then, also? But I do like the image of a cow, overly fuzzy bummed or not, being nosy all over. My mare is like that. Her vulva has a large patch of hair growing out of vaginal tract. If it were the first and only cow you ever saw, it wouldn't seem abnormal. But when you see them all the time....
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Post by willowgirl on Sept 2, 2017 17:10:36 GMT
I just thought I'd update this old thread with the latest news of the twins. Sadly, we lost Bridget after she kept going cystic and we couldn't get her to breed back. Gave her shots several times to try to clear up the problem but we just couldn't get her settled. In happier news, last week we dried off Lizzy early, as she is HUGE! I am taking bets there are at least two calves in there. Betsy's still milking, but she's big, too. They were bred on Valentine's day and so will be due in November. A daughter of Lizzy's calved into the herd recently and looks JUST like her! She is a friendly heifer and will about lick you to death. (There's one who will never go on the truck, sigh.) I named her "Lizbeth" in honor of her mother and grandmother. She made 70 lbs. on her first test at only 9 days in milk ... she has a really nice bag and, like all the cows from that line, is built like the proverbial brick you-know-what. I expect good things from her! Speaking of test day, there was an older cow, Shady, who calved during the hottest part of summer and really had a hard time of it. Lost a lot of weight, just looked like heck. Her feet aren't the greatest either. Well, I babied her for the first month or so, always making sure she went into the overflow group instead of the main pen at milking time, so she wouldn't have to stand for very long, and sometimes dumping feed in front of her after milking if I could catch her laying down -- that way she didn't have to get up to eat. On yesterday's test, her second since calving, she was our top cow at 96 lbs.! She's looking a lot better, too. It makes me so happy to see one of my girls pull through like that.
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Post by countrymom22 on Sept 11, 2017 1:08:16 GMT
Thanks for the update! But we need pictures!
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Post by willowgirl on Sept 15, 2017 13:04:20 GMT
Wish I had a camera on my phone!
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Post by willowgirl on Nov 16, 2017 4:25:35 GMT
Well, in keeping with the family tradition, Lizzy gave us a set of twins last night! This was a day after she fell and did the splits (oy) the dry cow barn right after it had been scraped. (Yeah, just like Jewel. The floor in there is grooved, but it's a pack barn and I think the girls get used to motoring around on the pack and forget to "use their concrete feet," lol.) The boss put hobbles on her and put her in a bay in the machine shed, which has a dirt floor (better traction for cows with mobility issues). When I went to check on her last night after milking, she was up on her feet, and so was her calf! A little white heifer bopping around all over the place, so cute. I topped off her feed and water and let my boss know so he could plan to bring them over in the morning. When I got to work today, I learned she had had TWO calves! They are both healthy. I'm not sure of the gender of the second one but I'm hoping it's a heifer too! (I'll find out tomorrow.) Lizzy is in a box stall adjacent to the milking parlor, and we brought her in to milk tonight without any problems. We'll keep her in the stall for awhile so we can baby her and keep an eye on her. Had two other cows freshen today, too. I've lost count of how many we've had come in this month ... egads. My lady boss says her husband and I are to blame because we set up so many cows last spring! I do try to get them all bred back before the weather heats up and our conception rate goes to heck. My bad, lol.
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Post by willowgirl on Nov 18, 2017 17:21:35 GMT
Good news! Both of Lizzie's twins were heifers. She is still struggling a bit (had to be treated for a suspected case of milk fever) but we are pulling for her. On Friday morning, four (!) more cows calved, including Lizzie's twin sister Betsy. There were 5 calves between them, and we don't know which calves belong to which cows because (typically) none of the cows were paying any attention to them. So it's possible Betsy twinned AGAIN, but I suspect the pair actually belongs to another cow, Georgia, as she has a RP isn't making much milk. (Sigh. Have I mentioned how much I really dislike twins?) Betsy is doing fine and milking like a champ. And that's your ag report, now I am off for the weekend and don't want to see another cow (besides my own) until Monday!
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Post by willowgirl on Nov 23, 2017 6:27:39 GMT
Well, I'm afraid our dear Lizzie crashed and burned. Even with hobbles on, she kept falling. Eventually she must have injured herself in such a way that she couldn't get up on her own anymore, although she never stopped trying. She was a fighter! But when it became clear that she wasn't going to win the battle, we did what was necessary. She is at peace now. RIP, Lizzie. In other news, Betsy continues to do well, and Numb and I will have a new addition to our herd Sunday, ghod willing and the creek don't rise! We're rescuing Rozlyn, who in keeping with the theme of this thread had twins a couple of months ago (grrr). I pulled her through that but just as she was start to take off and milk nicely, she came down with a case of E. coli (watery) mastitis -- the very worst kind that sometimes kills cows outright, and usually ruins their udders if they do survive. We gave her Banamine, dexamethasone, antibiotics and supplemental feed ... she seems to be on the road to recovery now, but her milk production has dropped to the point where she was due to be put on the truck. Roz has always been one of my pets (as was her grandmother, Smiley) so Numb and I made the decision to bring her home. She'll be joining Snowy and Lillian out at the farm. I'm going to put her in Bitey's old shed for the winter, where she can see and interact with the other cows without having to fight for a spot in the pecking order. We've spent the week cleaning out the shed and getting it ready ... Numb even built her a nice feed bunk. We're hoping she will regain her strength and have a long and happy life at the Home for Wayward Holsteins.
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Post by aoconnor on Dec 5, 2017 0:59:29 GMT
I'm so sorry to read about Lizzie. That is really sad:-(
I did read about Roz though on your other thread, I so hope she will bounce back and get well. I am sure that if she is going to get better, it will be because of you and Numb:-)
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Post by willowgirl on Dec 7, 2017 13:30:29 GMT
Aww, thank you! She is doing well; I'll have to update that thread.
One of Lizzie's twins died. Betsy got mastitis in one quarter (just the garden-variety kind) but is responding well to treatment is she's filling the bucket.
And so goes another episode of "As the Dairy Turns..."
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