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Post by copperkid3 on Mar 27, 2019 20:17:39 GMT
I thought I'd seen or heard everything when it comes to raising goats, but today's adventure proved there's always a first time. Let me back up a bit to give a little background leading up to what was witnessed this morning. This winter has been a rough one; lost 2 kids from separate mothers on the same day both kidded, due to extreme freezing temperatures a couple months ago. About a month ago, lost a yearling buck who got his head stuck in the feeder, struggled and managed to strangle himself on it. (Prime example for dehorning ALL goats in the future and maybe even tackle those adults that still have theirs). About 2 weeks ago, I couldn't find the half-brother to this one and went searching and found him stretched out dead in a shelter....no signs of trauma, no idea on why he passed away. And then we got out early today, to feed & water the chickens and take some time to sit with the goats in the new spring sun.... and as I'm prone to do, I started counting them again, but kept coming up with 10...when I'm supposed to have 11. I even stood up and peered around other objects and goats, thinking that whoever it was, must be hiding.....nope....still came up with 10. Now I'm concerned and have to figure out who it is. Quickly determined that it was a no-name yearling doeling, extremely shy and skittish. She would NEVER go off by herself unless something was out-of-the ordinary or she was sick or dying. So the dog & I went a looking and finally I spot her over on the far north side of the property.....standing up and appearing okay from a distance. I sent the dog to go gather her in and as soon as he ran up towards her, she started hi-tailing it back up towards the barn and never looked back. At that point, I also noticed a white object on the ground and then it suddenly stood up as the dog approached. It was a new-borne kid!!! And I didn't even realize that the doeling (doe) was pregnant.....she certainly never showed any signs. I called the dog back and quickly hurried over to gather up a nice, healthy-looking buckling, who gave out some hearty bleats and blahs as I carried him back to where the rest of the herd were waiting. As I drew nearer, I noticed that every time this little one gave out a cry, he received a call back from one of our old timers; BG (Birthday Girl) who has always been a very good and attentive mother. For some reason, she didn't get bred last fall, so she didn't have a kid of her own this year. But she certainly wanted one now... I set him down and although he was mostly cleaned up by his own mom earlier, B.G. came over and started licking him all over and guarding him from that menacing dog who wanted to see who the newcomer was. His momma, stood off to the side, not venturing to approach her offspring and seemed to not care as long as "Aunty BG" (or was that Grandma BG?) was taking care of business. I left them together, figuring there wasn't any harm in having another maternal "parent" in the wings, and planned on checking on them later to see how they all were doing. A couple hours later, I come back out and notice that mom hasn't shown any further interest in her baby, but B.G. is allowing the kid to nuzzle her and even positioned herself and him so that he could start trying to nurse off of her!!! I watched the proceedings in AMAZEMENT and very closely, as I'd never seen such volunteer behavior before, nor have I read of anything like it either. He would grasp ahold of a teat and give it several good butts to the udder and then his little tail would start wagging all over the place.....the problem though is I simply don't believe it's possible that he's actually getting anything to eat....but he's giving all the indications of someone who is. She's certainly not bagged up, and I'm not sure that goats can just start reflexively lactating simply because they are triggered by a new-bornes' cry....or at least within such a short period of time. Granted she's also been licking him all over and is certainly acting like he is her own, but in just a couple hours....is such a thing possible?!!! Because if it's not, I've still got my work cut out for me and I'll have to act quickly to avoid losing him if he isn't actually getting anything to eat. And I really wasn't wanting to be a bottle baby daddy again....
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Post by countrymom22 on Mar 27, 2019 21:33:56 GMT
Wow, that is amazing! I guess BG is just a natural born mom. Maybe you could separate the buckling and his real mom to see if she'll nurse him? Maybe being so skittish she isn't willing to stand up to BG to take her baby back.
Let us know how it turns out. Good luck!
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Post by Maura on Mar 27, 2019 22:50:47 GMT
I would jug the young mama with her kid. That is, put them in a small small stall together so he has no alternative but to nurse from his mother and vice versa.
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Post by mzgarden on Mar 27, 2019 22:56:20 GMT
Wow, a little chin scratch for BG for being a good step-momma. Hope it all works out, keep us updated (and I know there are probably pictures somwhere?)  |
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Post by copperkid3 on Mar 27, 2019 23:48:04 GMT
Wow, that is amazing! I guess BG is just a natural born mom. Maybe you could separate the buckling and his real mom to see if she'll nurse him? Maybe being so skittish she isn't willing to stand up to BG to take her baby back. Let us know how it turns out. Good luck! You nailed it! I just returned from observing more bizzaro world in goat behavior. i.e. B.G's maternal instincts are on hyper-drive. I'd been out and trying to catch some of the bigger goats to trim their hooves having lost my pair of trimmers a long time ago. Finally found a pair that while not the best, was doing the long-neglected job albeit slowly. During the process, I'd positioned myself so as to observe further what was taking place with the newborn kid and B.G. For some strange reason, the kid approached "Idiot Child", who comes by his name honestly - always getting his head stuck in the feeder and standing outside in the rain or snow all night....seemingly unable (more like unwilling) to try and get out, until 'Daddy' comes along to rescue him and then lo and behold.....amazing, he figures out exactly how to turn his head one way and then the other to release him from his self-made prison and he wanders off.....like, eh....who needs you now? And so the love/hate relationship continues. Anyway, the JERK comes along and the kid wanders over thinking this might be the place to catch a cream soda.....only the Idiot decides he's having none of it and puts his head down and then slams the kid- sending flying thru the air for over 5 feet or so. I yelled at the Idiot and he knew he'd done wrong and he takes off in the other direction. B.G. apparently witnessed what had taken place a bit further off and came running over to check on the welfare of her adopted boy. He got up, shook himself off and was none the worse for it, it seems. Here's where it really gets strange. I don't know whether the kid's own birth mom observed what had taken place, but she approached slowly from the other side of the feeder and I suddenly heard a distinct gruntal sound coming from deep within B.G.'s throat; a warning sound that I'd heard from her when others came too close to her kids. Apparently the new mom had never heard it before though, as she continued to press forward to get closer to the new born.....perhaps she was finally feeling the need to try and feed him? It didn't matter to B.G. however, as far as she was concerned, the kid now belonged to her, and new mom could go elsewhere as her parental rights had been terminated. New mom, having horns, persisted by putting her head down as if to challenge B.G. B.G. had been dehorned years ago when she was a kid and it didn't matter....she outweighed the new mom by more than 2 to 1 and she also put her head down , but instead of going head-to-head, she slammed roughly a number of times, into her side violently, to impress the point....and drove her back about 6 feet. New mom got the message and left the area. And now I've got to make a very hard decision and quickly too. Unless the kid gets some real milk or formula soon, he won't make it thru the night. While I do have a small pen in the barn that might work, the prospects of capturing the mother and getting her into it are slim at best. And having to be a thrice a day formula feeding bottle baby daddy couldn't have come at a more inconvenient time....I don't know if I'm up to it....haven't had the pleasure in over 3 years or so, but what other choice do I have? |
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Post by copperkid3 on Mar 28, 2019 0:55:54 GMT
I would jug the young mama with her kid. That is, put them in a small small stall together so he has no alternative but to nurse from his mother and vice versa. Oh....I already just finished up trying that idea. Sounds good in theory, but this is a first time, very young mother and she seems to have no clue, nor interest in the bawling kid in the stall next to her. In fact, she's moved away from him or visa versa....hard to tell who doesn't want to be in there worse. In the meantime, B.G. is outside on the other side of the barn and deeply disturbed by the outbursts that she can hear, but do nothing about. To finally get my curiosity settled once and for, I decided to find out if it was possible (however remote that might be) that she could have been lactating and if he had managed to gain some sustenance through a portion of the day. Of course she was having nothing to do with that venture and managed to avoid me for a good 5 minutes before I unleashed the hound and told him: "Go get here and bring her back!" She led him on a merry chase across hill and valley and across stream and field, but finally he caught her, she fought him, he persisted and the chase was on again. Finally the chewing on the legs and the nipping of the sides had there affect and she started crying out to me as if....."Call off your beast!" I told her, come on up here and you know I'll get him to stop. Darndest thing is, that's exactly what she did next.....I swear they understand us better than we give them credit for.....as soon as she reached the top and came to me.....I was a man of my word and told Rocky, "Enough"...and he left both of us alone. I consoled her with the harsh truth, like all the times before...."We could have avoided all this at the beginning, but oh no, you had to do it YOUR way." She glared at me as she wheezed and then I flipped her off her feet and onto her side and quickly saw there was no filled udder and nothing coming out of her teats. I released her just as quickly and told her....."While it was nice of you to assume the role of wet nurse, it's too bad you can't really be one. I only hope that you haven't driven the real mom from doing her duties and if we lose this kid because of it...." I left off, refusing to think that and went into the house to prepare formula and find the nursing bottle. I've decided to leave the kid in the barn with his mom, as there is always the hope and chance that they may re-bond and she does start to nurse him, but in the interim I'm going to start the bottle feeding at least twice a day. Oh the joys of having goats... |
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Post by copperkid3 on Mar 28, 2019 0:58:26 GMT
Wow, a little chin scratch for BG for being a good step-momma. Hope it all works out, keep us updated (and I know there are probably pictures somwhere?) No pics....sorry. Even if I knew what I was doing, (which I don't) I simply don't have the equipment to do so at this time. But if he survives, I'll see if I can find someone who does have both and will try to get some posted here for you. |
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Post by Mari-in-IN on Mar 28, 2019 1:07:10 GMT
Gosh almighty I have been reading through this thread as it has transpired... I definitely know now that I just will stay with chickens for the time being... but wanted to give you goat lovers words of encouragement! You go guys! And gals! Oh my what a job and responsibility they seem to entail on occasion...
Ya'll take care!
~Mari
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Post by LauraD on Mar 28, 2019 12:48:23 GMT
Could you isolate BG so that she isn't within sight/hearing of new mom and the baby? Then maybe new mom will be relaxed enough to pay attention to her kid.
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Post by copperkid3 on Mar 29, 2019 2:54:55 GMT
Could you isolate BG so that she isn't within sight/hearing of new mom and the baby? Then maybe new mom will be relaxed enough to pay attention to her kid. Been there....done that....it hasn't made a bit of difference. She stares alarmed at both me and the squawling kid like it's from another world. I fed him this morning and then stuck him back in the stall with his real momma and left them for the day. When I came back in the late afternoon, he was skinny like he hadn't touched a drop of mother's milk and was starting up a bawling when he spotted me....already associates me with his bottle. Told him he'd have to wait a few more hours as I was about ready to head up to the township board meetings and we'd settle up when I got home. It was after dark by the time that happened and I located him and brought him back up to the house and placed him in a cardboard box and started heating up the formula. He tried taking some, but apparently it hadn't cooled down enough and that put him off.....so we're going to try it again shortly. I know he's hungry and that's a good sign. He also started peeing a long stream of urine....and took his first doo-doo.... So there's the strong possibility that he may have got some of mama's milk with the colostrum; otherwise he'll likely be a sickly child and may not live out the summer.....or so I've heard. He seems to be going good now, so here's hoping for the best. Gotta go....time for feeding and he's been pretty patient waiting for it. Addendum: Well....we tried, but he wasn't having anything to do with the nipple and whatever was in the bottle either. Tried several times but he wouldn't start suckling like he'd done so easily both the night before and this morning. As soon as I quit trying though and put a cover over the box, he started crying and crying like NOW I WANT TO TRY IT....I WAS JUST FOOLING WITH YOU BEFORE!!! He finally settled down and hopefully we can try again in the morning, otherwise I'm out of options. And so is he.... Addendum to the previous addendum: When I got up this morning, I wondered if our little guy would still be around, but as soon as he heard me stirring, he gave a couple of short, bleats to let me know that he was okay and as I started to reheat the formula, he let it be known, that NOW he was hungry. Told him he'd just have to wait a bit longer.....because then the phone rang and the formula got hotter than I would have liked by the time I could get the caller to say good-bye and now we had to let it cool down so he could drink it safely. By the time that happened, the little guy gave me every indication that he was done playing the game that he'd tried the night before and sure enough.....he went to town on that bottle and nearly drained a half of it down without coming up for air once! 5.5 ounces isn't something to sneeze at and after a short spell to catch his breath, he proceeded in taking on another full oz. before calling it quits. I then gathered him up and we marched on down to the barn and I shut him in with his still shell-shocked mom. She still wants nothing to do with him and the only "bonding" that I observed, was when I came back several hours later and upon opening the door, he came bounding over to see what I'd brought him and attempted to head butt my hand in hopes that it would supply a bottle. Sorry Charlie, you'll just have to wait until this evening, but it looks like I've got a bottle baby in the making whether I want to or not. |
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Post by LauraD on Mar 29, 2019 12:58:29 GMT
Wow, what a mess. Poor kid...and poor you!
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Post by dustawaits on Mar 29, 2019 14:57:20 GMT
We had one doe that did not like to be milked, I did not like to milk her!
To me she was next to worthless. Big doe and did not milk like a hoot.
Or did she? So as I watched carefully over the herd I noticed she went
to the kid pen and called them to the fence........
I never knew how much that doe milked but I put a stop to that through
the fence stuff. Put her in the pasture across the road. She jumped the fence.
I tied her out, she went dry.
Ok so kidding time again, sold her kids at birth, she stole the bucks kids off another doe,
two less kids for me to feed, she was happy I was happy, the mother of the kids was happy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2019 9:01:12 GMT
You've certainly had an adventure with those goats!
Were you able to milk out the young doe to get colostrum?
What sort of formula are you using? With my bottle kids, I've always had great success with good old cow milk, sometimes mixed in with goat milk, if I have it. Nothing necessary to make it any better, and it's been working to make big, growthy kids for 10 years now. Cheaper and healthier than powdered mix, although I do know some folks who had powder on hand wound up mixing it with whole cow's milk.
How's the little goober doing?
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Post by copperkid3 on Apr 7, 2019 16:39:10 GMT
You've certainly had an adventure with those goats! Were you able to milk out the young doe to get colostrum? What sort of formula are you using? With my bottle kids, I've always had great success with good old cow milk, sometimes mixed in with goat milk, if I have it. Nothing necessary to make it any better, and it's been working to make big, growthy kids for 10 years now. Cheaper and healthier than powdered mix, although I do know some folks who had powder on hand wound up mixing it with whole cow's milk. How's the little goober doing? "Goober", aka "Charlie" is doing remarkably well thank you very much.....in fact, I'm apparently out of a job of late, as it seems that within the last 2-3 days, whenever I'd come out to try and feed him, he wasn't much interested in what I had to offer. Of course that got me to thinking about the matter a whole lot and I sneaked out "between feedings" and spotted him and his REAL mom, sharing a precious moment. I'm guessing the hormones must have finally kicked in, but she now looks at him with something approaching 'affection' instead of terror and is allowing him to suckle whenever he wants to....although based on her size (or lack thereof) I'm keeping the spare bottle nearby....just in case its' needed. She also has stopped shying away from me until I'm like 4-5 feet away....whereas in times past, I'd be lucky to get within 12-15 feet. She has no problems when he leaves her side and comes bouncing to see me when I call his name and when I lie down in the loose, scattered hay near the feeder, she continues to feed while her boy plays with me...just a few feet away. So glad to give up being a baby bottle daddy. |
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Post by LauraD on Apr 8, 2019 13:06:06 GMT
Yeah!!!!
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