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Post by solargeek on May 14, 2020 2:57:17 GMT
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Post by christie on May 14, 2020 3:30:20 GMT
And we're hearing don't come to your 2nd home in WI if you don't live in WI already. So we hope the WI residents remain in WI and not cross into adjacent states. This situation might get interesting...
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Post by manygoatsnmore on May 14, 2020 3:56:30 GMT
I assume this will be appealed?
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Post by solargeek on May 14, 2020 4:11:01 GMT
I assume this will be appealed? No I don't think it will. But they (Dems and Reps) should've had a plan. Talk about all around LOUSY leadership here. |
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Post by Jolly on May 14, 2020 11:06:02 GMT
I understand the bars were hopping, right after the decision.
A spike should occur in about two weeks or so...
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Post by Use Less on May 14, 2020 11:26:43 GMT
No one has to go along with that if it feels like a bad choice. I suspect too many people will hear, "It's OK now, what was the big deal?"
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Post by mogal on May 14, 2020 11:44:19 GMT
You know, one thing I learned as a teenager raising cattle was that when someone brought a sick cow to the sale barn, the disease spread and became more virulent as it passed from animal to animal. If people bought replacement breeding stock to take home, the smart ones had quarantine facilities prepared for the new animals. (Gee, there's that word again--quarantine). The stupid ones paid fortunes to the vets or got a tax write off when animals died. I knew a few guys who would deliberately buy the sickest animals so that when those died, they claimed they were healthy valuable stock just for the tax write off. Often the tax cheats did lose good animals. We sold bulls through the sale barn but NEVER in the 9 years that we had the cattle did we buy from the sale barn. Not once.
The thing that chaps my hide is that the irresponsible behavior of the "freedom, civil rights" jerks can cost a doctor, nurse, first responder or innocent member of the population so dearly. I'll stay home, thanks.
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Post by Mr DAVID In Wisconsin on May 14, 2020 12:04:48 GMT
I understand the bars were hopping, right after the decision. A spike should occur in about two weeks or so... I suspect many of the bars in Wisconsin were hopping before the decision. Wisconsiners are wonderfully dedicated that way. |
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Post by Woodpecker on May 14, 2020 13:39:36 GMT
Plainly a disaster, more of a disaster is to come. I'd be smart, listen to my gut feelings and stay home and or just continue life in the way you've been living it, carefully. I would not set foot in a crowd...this is just plainly asking for the virus to remain rampant and gives only false hope and lies.
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Post by laurazone5 on May 14, 2020 13:50:16 GMT
SO Georgia opened up first......weeks ago. We thought GA. was going to be the 'canary in the coal mine"
No huge surge in GA.
WI now has swung the doors. They are the new canary in the coal mine.
If we get NO surge in 2-3 weeks........man o man will folks have A LOT of questions.........
And we shall see.......
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Post by allenw on May 14, 2020 14:43:04 GMT
More and more information keeps coming out about how bad this pandemic wasn't.
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Post by susannah on May 14, 2020 14:51:07 GMT
The title of your post says it all solargeek : "And just like that, WI is open". What in the heck happened to the request to stay the decision (that we all knew was coming) for a week to give both the governor and the legislature time to work out the details of reopening? My husband and I figured based on the arguments and the justices positions the safer at home extension would be struck down, but at least hoped that the request for a one week stay would provide a concrete plan for how to safely reopen. Nope, just BOOM! You're open, life goes back to normal. We're stunned, and yeah, I'm angry. But to each their own. It happened. We will choose continue as before. We won't be going out without face coverings, we won't be doing any shopping beyond what's necessary - which when you think about it is a good way to approach shopping, period. It's good for our financial health as well as our physical health. We never went to bars and very rarely went to restaurants prior to this. If anything, we'll go to restaurants even less now. And we'll keep our unprofessional but safe home haircuts for now, thank you very much. mogal , I wish I could like this comment of yours a thousand times: "The thing that chaps my hide is that the irresponsible behavior of the "freedom, civil rights" jerks can cost a doctor, nurse, first responder or innocent member of the population so dearly. I'll stay home, thanks." And I agree 1000% percent. Earlier this week, I was reading an article written by a nurse pleading with people to stay home. She detailed what her home life has become - how returning home from work each day, she distances herself from her family to keep them safe. It was heartbreaking, and I broke down crying while talking about it with my husband. Think about risking your life every day to go to work to help people, think about not being able to hug your children because you want to keep them safe - I can only imagine. As mogal said - I'll stay home. |
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Post by feather on May 14, 2020 15:04:44 GMT
Since we have no leadership in the mess, this forces school districts (as an example) to make decisions that they also have no authority to do. They will have to choose to open schools, or they will have to choose to keep them closed, which they may or may not have the authority to do under the current lack of advisories.
This pushes decisions on people that aren't equipped to make those decisions. Everyone's attorney (for instance with school districts) will have to be consulted. An expensive mess of mass confusion.
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Post by manygoatsnmore on May 14, 2020 18:16:02 GMT
What a mess. Can't they go to the Circuit court of appeals for the area and ask for an emergency stay? I don't know which Circuit number covers Wisconsin, but I do know they can overrule State Supreme Courts, right? I also agree with susannah and mogal that someone deciding that their right to a beer supersedes first responders' right to live is just wrong. Common sense says stay home and save lives. laurazone5, allenw, what part of 85K lives lost and counting, constitutes a pandemic that wasn't? It's still too soon to see if Georgia has a spike - the incubation time is up to at least 3 weeks...and they aren't even sure of that being the upper limit. Also, it will take time to see if some people that have no symptoms or such mild symptoms that they don't realize they have it, pass it on to others...and some of THOSE people WILL sicken and possibly die. So, we're looking at at least 6-8 weeks to see deaths rise, as many who go on a ventilator will stay on that vent for weeks before succumbing. By then, it's a runaway situation again, especially since we do not have enough testing/accurate enough rapid tests to track and trace outbreaks. I want to see our economy open and life get back to normal, too, but let's use some common sense. If things open too soon and another outbreak takes off, then everything will be closed down again, and it will be even harder to get things open in the long run. Just saying, "Hey, it's open, let's have a party", without thinking through the consequences, is selfish and self-centered. If we don't think of others, how can we expect others to think of us? It's the old Golden Rule...and just good manners! |
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Post by snoozy on May 14, 2020 18:26:06 GMT
Yes, imagine how many would've died from the coronavirus -- or been ruined financially if they were hospitalized and survived (nobody seems to talk about the hospital bills) -- if there hadn't been a nationwide lockdown!
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Post by solargeek on May 14, 2020 19:17:11 GMT
SO Georgia opened up first......weeks ago. We thought GA. was going to be the 'canary in the coal mine" No huge surge in GA. WI now has swung the doors. They are the new canary in the coal mine. If we get NO surge in 2-3 weeks........man o man will folks have A LOT of questions......... And we shall see....... Not sure where you are reading? www.augustachronicle.com/news/20200512/small-increase-for-augusta-larger-for-georgia-in-covid-19www.cnbc.com/2020/05/13/coronavirus-updates-georgia-tries-to-reopen-economy-during-pandemic.htmlEach of the papers I looked at (DS lives outside Atlanta in a hard-hit county) showed continued increase. They also said Georgia will not know until later this month as even if people were exposed the 1st day, they could be asymptomatic for weeks.
To all here, yes we plan to continue as we have been with SD and staying home (but HEY it is finally planting time for my 1500 seedlings!!) EXCEPT that if they offer Mass, we will be there. |
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Post by solargeek on May 14, 2020 19:25:28 GMT
What a mess. Can't they go to the Circuit court of appeals for the area and ask for an emergency stay? I don't know which Circuit number covers Wisconsin, but I do know they can overrule State Supreme Courts, right? No, WI state appellate courts cannot overrule the WI Supreme Court (just like in the federal system). ONLY the US SUPREME COURT might be able to overruly the WI Supreme Court and that would depend on the subject matter. Confusingly, in NY, the lowest level trial court is called "the Supreme Court" when in reality that is not true, and the NY Appellate courts (next level) can overrule their "Supreme" courts. But for most states you start at the trial courts, (with various names), then the courts of Appeal (normally called Appellate court) and then the state Supreme Court. |
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Post by laurazone5 on May 14, 2020 20:10:42 GMT
SO Georgia opened up first......weeks ago. We thought GA. was going to be the 'canary in the coal mine" No huge surge in GA WI now has swung the doors. They are the new canary in the coal mine. If we get NO surge in 2-3 weeks........man o man will folks have A LOT of questions......... And we shall see....... , I never said it 'was the pandemic that wasn't"ke No one on the news is talking about a surge in GA. I have not seen one report on how "GA opened too soon, look what's happening" or "Gov. SoinSo is going to extend the stay at home order because of what happened in GA". The media LOVES hystiria and mayhem, and fear. I would think if GA has a surge they would be on that like white on rice. Now that we have "improved and expanded testing" the number WILL go up. It's always been there, just now, we can quantify it. When hospitals are pushed to the brink of capacity, when the death toll starts to SPIKE, then we can without question say "yup should have stayed closed".
I am in NO WAY condoning what happened in WI. I think swinging the doors like nothing happened is dumb. |
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Post by christie on May 15, 2020 2:55:37 GMT
Some counties and cities in WI are still doing SAH. I found it quite ironic that the first bar shown on the news was in Brown County. Which is the hot spot of WI.
IL is *thinking* we might get to phase three (of five phases) come June 1. We'll see. None of my family has any intention on dining out for a long, long time. Don't care at what percent capacity. Of 102 counties in IL, only 3 have no cases.. yet. Two of the counties are surrounded by counties with covid-19. Both have population <6K. The other county is 15K-18K and borders IN. The IL counties around it have cases as does the IN county (might be two IN counties).
Ten percent of the cases in my county are in the 0-19 age range but no deaths (so far).
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Post by manygoatsnmore on May 15, 2020 3:01:48 GMT
SO Georgia opened up first......weeks ago. We thought GA. was going to be the 'canary in the coal mine" No huge surge in GA WI now has swung the doors. They are the new canary in the coal mine. If we get NO surge in 2-3 weeks........man o man will folks have A LOT of questions......... And we shall see....... , I never said it 'was the pandemic that wasn't"ke No one on the news is talking about a surge in GA. I have not seen one report on how "GA opened too soon, look what's happening" or "Gov. SoinSo is going to extend the stay at home order because of what happened in GA". The media LOVES hystiria and mayhem, and fear. I would think if GA has a surge they would be on that like white on rice. Now that we have "improved and expanded testing" the number WILL go up. It's always been there, just now, we can quantify it. When hospitals are pushed to the brink of capacity, when the death toll starts to SPIKE, then we can without question say "yup should have stayed closed".
I am in NO WAY condoning what happened in WI. I think swinging the doors like nothing happened is dumb. No, you didn't say that...it was allenw that referred to it. I was referencing that you said the part about Georgia having no big surge, and pointing out that we don't really know yet if the canary is going to drop dead. Georgia's rates of Covid are still going up, and we won't know for a while yet what effect opening early has had. Your post sounded like you didn't believe there was a problem with the states opening, at least to me. I've re-read it and it still hits me that way... I'm sorry, if that's not what you meant. And I agree with you, it was dumb to swing the doors open like they did in WI. Seeing the patrons at the bar, drinking it up and no attempt to prevent spreading anything anyone was carrying just confirms what I originally thought.
I may have come across a little more strongly than I needed to - it frosts my flakes that so many folks are not taking this deadly seriously, no pun intended.
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Post by manygoatsnmore on May 15, 2020 3:05:20 GMT
What a mess. Can't they go to the Circuit court of appeals for the area and ask for an emergency stay? I don't know which Circuit number covers Wisconsin, but I do know they can overrule State Supreme Courts, right? No, WI state appellate courts cannot overrule the WI Supreme Court (just like in the federal system). ONLY the US SUPREME COURT might be able to overruly the WI Supreme Court and that would depend on the subject matter. Confusingly, in NY, the lowest level trial court is called "the Supreme Court" when in reality that is not true, and the NY Appellate courts (next level) can overrule their "Supreme" courts. But for most states you start at the trial courts, (with various names), then the courts of Appeal (normally called Appellate court) and then the state Supreme Court. Thank you. I know that in my state, if you want to overrule the state Supreme Court, you have to go to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals (not sure if I'm phrasing that correctly) before you can go to the US Supreme Court. I didn't know if it was different in WI. |
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Post by solargeek on May 15, 2020 3:42:05 GMT
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Post by laurazone5 on May 15, 2020 13:46:13 GMT
manygoatsnmore, I do think this was blown way out of proportion. I know COVID 19 is a real thing. I had it in Feb. My grandbabies paternal grandparents both had it in March. PawPaw was hospitalized, on O2. I KNOW it's real. My DIL and one boss had it in January. It's been here since December 2019. 48% of the deaths in Indiana were in nursing homes/assisted living. Obesity, diabetes, heart disease, immune compromised make up the vast majority of the rest. I think it 100% sucks that this virus slaughtered folks that were already isolated, locked inside. I think shutting down schools was brilliant. God Bless Wisconsin. Swinging the doors with no notice? Stupid, inhumane to bartenders and servers. They were stripped of their livelyhood, stability. MOST are STILL waiting for their unemployment they filed for in MARCH. THEY NEED THE MONEY. NOW you swing the doors, their bars and restaurants are JAMMED FULL of people.....1/2 give ZERO spits about social distance, etc. 1/2 are on HYPER ALERT....and this is a molatov cocktail that bartenders and servers will have to deal with. Unfortunately WI will see a surge in suicides, because of this stupid decision.
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Post by allenw on May 15, 2020 14:25:53 GMT
We're all born terminal. 85k dead they tell us but how many were already compromised in other ways? Hiding from this virus in isolation is only going to prolong it's run not end it.
I've worked everyday through this with no lost customers, essential business, other then that have made a point of limiting my contacts to just what is necessary and limited traveling outside the local area. Look around at what is happening and use your own judgment about what to do according to the conditions in your area.
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Post by snoozy on May 15, 2020 16:29:03 GMT
85,000 is an undercount. You have to look at the number of deaths in excess of the monthly average for any particular population. Because most corpses are not tested for coronavirus. Most Americans are not able to get tested.
Additionally, though you posit that most people who died of coronavirus had underlying health conditions, most Americans HAVE underlying health conditions, so it is kind of hard to sort that out. Obviously, people with burdened immune systems are less able to fight this thing. Like, duh.
Also, there will be many people whose treatment for whatever condition they have was postponed or they avoided going to the hospital because they didn't want to be exposed to covid19. So they had heart attacks or mortal strokes they might have survived if they had gone in to emergency. They are, in essence, excess collateral deaths due to the pandemic.
The deaths in excess of the average mortality rates of any particular locale will show this.
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Post by christie on May 15, 2020 19:43:02 GMT
And now we're down to 2 counties w/no cases. The county that is adjacent to IN is no longer covid free.
And some IL covidiots plan on descending on WI this weekend. Couple of reasons given: "supporting the DJ working in WI" and from the healthcare worker (yes, that is her occupation), to enjoy herself. She's tested negative and plans on social distancing. Which isn't going to happen.
And another set of IL covidiots went to IA because they could shop and "it was nice seeing families out shopping". I could handle going to a relatives house and staying there. And if a gas stop is needed, mask/gloves, gas-n-go.
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Post by snoozy on May 15, 2020 19:51:58 GMT
"DJ"?
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Post by susannah on May 15, 2020 20:25:08 GMT
Drove into town today. Every restaurant I passed still had the "open for carryout only" signs/phone numbers. I don't know how many actually are open for dine-in. I didn't see anything to indicate they were, but some of them are only open in the evening so it was too early to tell. And I'll remain in the dark about them, because I have no desire to go for a drive tonight to investigate. It would be a waste of gas, since we don't go out to eat unless some of our guests insist on taking us. Even more important, I have no desire to play "dodge deer" and those critters are out in force - especially in the evening.
I read on a local news website that some restaurants in the area are open for dine in but operating at reduced capacity, while others have not opened for dine in because they're not ready, they don't feel they have sufficient protective measures in place, aren't sure when they'll reopen for dine in. Another local business (shop) said he will continue as he was before Safer at Home was struck down - EVERYONE wears a mask in the store, staff and customers alike. With a definite limit on how many will be allowed in the store at one time.
So these things are reassuring, and I was happy to see business owners being cautious, caring and safe. But before I could get too comfortable and reassured by what I was seeing I happened to drive by a bar. Door wide open, quite a few cars in the parking lot - at 1 p.m. You know you're in Wisconsin...
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Post by snoozy on May 15, 2020 21:32:11 GMT
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Post by Use Less on May 16, 2020 1:32:39 GMT
snoozy, He's in Kingston, NY, a smallish city on the west side of the Hudson about 2 hours (100 miles) up from NYC. They put out a call for anyone who'd been in the shop in the last 3 weeks to call their doctor or health department. The fiddle camp I've gone to for over 20 years is minutes from there, in a very rural area of mountains and the giant reservoirs that supply the city's water. I hope it isn't a new little hotspot.  |
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