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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 4:02:37 GMT
This site has been missing out on a great subject. I'm not a compost guru, but sure am a believer and promoter of compost. This year I planted everything in straight compost so far. I averaged 2 pounds per linear foot of single row in taters with an early harvest. I thought that was great. Had a few 1 pound taters. Dug them by hand, too. There was no tilling or weeds. I harvested early because many were complaining about root rot. I didn't have any.
There is lots of information about the subject floating around. Much of it is to promote buying lots of needless stuff that becomes junk.
Each situation is different. I compost in large piles with no containment. I live on an acreage outside of the city with no covenants. The problems with compost are easily solvable. Such as smell. If it stinks you have to much nitrogen (greens) and need more carbon (browns).
I believe compost is more than just for the garden. I think of compost as restoring the soil to productive levels. Yes it takes a bunch. There is no better way to bring your soil to perfect health. When that happens you have much less problems with diseases and pests.
A neighbor complained about the pests eating his garden to the dust while I had 7 foot maters. He said compost stinks and attract flies. That could be very true. I have neither problem. My piles smell wonderful. Do not build a pile at your back door.
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Post by whisperwindkat on Jun 15, 2015 10:31:16 GMT
Absolutely agree. I use compost for everything and have several huge piles. When I first caught the composting bug I didn't have as much livestock as I have now and so I would drive into town on Sunday afternoon and load my van with bags and bags of grass clippings. I have all the leaves I want but needed the green material. It became addictive from there. Blessings, Kat
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Post by willowgirl on Jun 15, 2015 10:49:46 GMT
We have cows, so we have compost. Ours is manure mixed with dirty hay bedding. This year, we converted half the garden to raised beds, which are all being filled with compost.
The soil here is SWPA is so bad -- clay and rocks -- that it's easier to garden in raised beds and containers rather than trying to improve it!
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Post by pammysue on Jun 15, 2015 12:26:22 GMT
After this year I'm a BIG believer in compost. For the last several years we've put compost on the garden and couldn't believe how much better it did and how much easier it is to hoe and the weeds pull out so much easier.
Last year after I got the garden in we had rain and I never got a chance to get in the garden to hoe and we'd get more rain, (NOT complaining about the rain mind you) the weeds were up to my knees before I was able to get in there and pull them. They pulled up so nice and easy I was really surprised and not hardly any of them broke off while trying to pull. This year is a totally different story.
My husband spread all the compost that was left over on the pasture last year so therefore we had none for the garden come this spring except for one big loader bucket full. Same thing happened this spring with the rains. The weeds were hard to pull and broke off and hoeing, well it was like hoeing concrete that ground was so hard. I don't think it helped any he tilled it while it was a little to wet yet either but that's beside the point. Where the little compost we did have was spread the weeds pulled easy and it was easy to hoe. I told him I'll never plant a garden again unless it has lots of compost put on first.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 12:45:57 GMT
I'm a believer in compost as well. I have 2 "bins" right now. One that I'm currently filling and another that I'm letting break down. I save most of my kitchen scraps and mix in plenty of leaves, grass, paper and manure. Comfrey too. Unfortunately I don't make a lot but I'm trying to increase it. Both my raised beds this year are basically compost. I used grass clippings, leaves and quail manure to fill them. Let them "work" fall thru spring and they are beautiful. Lol. Tomatoes and beans are doing great. I talked my Dad into composting and he started a pile this spring.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 13:44:30 GMT
I have always made my garden twice as big as I needed. Half for garden and half for barn cleaning. The stuff broke down, but never heated up much. I battled weeds something fierce. Last year I just dumped the barn cleaning in a pile in the pasture and pretty much walked away. The rich glorious stuff in that pile!!!! I've now turned it a few times with my loader bucket. I'm impressed. Probably using half the fuel because I'm not driving the stuff as far and when I do move it is at least 75% less.
The winter hay I got last year was horrible, stemmy and weedy, lots of waste. My current pile is about 12' high and 30' long. Been dry here, so not composting the best but I have been turning it about everytime I jump on the tractor. I lost an old ewe at the end of January. I opened the pile up and put her in there and covered her up. Ran into her the other day as I turned the pile. A few pieces of wool, a couple bones, no flesh, no hide. Totally impressed!!!
Took some of the good dark stuff and mulched my garden with it (after putting plastic down for a few weeks to kill the weeds). So far very few weeds. The plants are happy. And I didn't have to till. Hoping this trend continues!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 14:15:07 GMT
In winter our sheep are on deep bedding, so I have a seemingly endless supply of dirty bedding in the spring. It's so carbon rich it doesn't break down quickly, so I use it as a mulch. In time it sheet composts nicely, but makes a decent weed barrier in the mean time. Stalls currently being occupied are cleaned out to a pile for later use so I don't burn the veggies.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 15:25:10 GMT
I have always made my garden twice as big as I needed. Half for garden and half for barn cleaning. The stuff broke down, but never heated up much. I battled weeds something fierce. Last year I just dumped the barn cleaning in a pile in the pasture and pretty much walked away. The rich glorious stuff in that pile!!!! I've now turned it a few times with my loader bucket. I'm impressed. Probably using half the fuel because I'm not driving the stuff as far and when I do move it is at least 75% less. The winter hay I got last year was horrible, stemmy and weedy, lots of waste. My current pile is about 12' high and 30' long. Been dry here, so not composting the best but I have been turning it about everytime I jump on the tractor. I lost an old ewe at the end of January. I opened the pile up and put her in there and covered her up. Ran into her the other day as I turned the pile. A few pieces of wool, a couple bones, no flesh, no hide. Totally impressed!!! Took some of the good dark stuff and mulched my garden with it (after putting plastic down for a few weeks to kill the weeds). So far very few weeds. The plants are happy. And I didn't have to till. Hoping this trend continues!! I think all you need to do is add water and lots of it. Nothing decomposes without it. My current pile has 23 inches of rain in it. I also made it on a slope so water would run into it. Dry organic matter soaks up water and the water rises to the top. Do water your pile from the top, though. If I hadn't turned it the middle would be dry. The local compost yard turns theirs every time it gets water. When they let people have it, it is still wet and hot. A big pile will retain heat for more than a year. As soon as it is spread it loses its heat. Mass it part of the requirement for it to heat. I promote large piles. Mine have been 5-6 ft, high 15-20 ft wide and 30-60 ft long.
I also get lots of grinder tub offal at the compost yard. All I have to do is pile it up and water it.
Recently I picked up a couple loads of sawdust. I will mix it with green bagged grass I pick up from the curb.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 15:33:25 GMT
In winter our sheep are on deep bedding, so I have a seemingly endless supply of dirty bedding in the spring. It's so carbon rich it doesn't break down quickly, so I use it as a mulch. In time it sheet composts nicely, but makes a decent weed barrier in the mean time. Stalls currently being occupied are cleaned out to a pile for later use so I don't burn the veggies. That works as well. You would get much better results by composting it in a pile. Of course you would need to add nitrogen (greens) and water if you do not get enough rain. That is why I now make mine on a slope. Compost will not burn plants. It does not have enough nitrogen content. It does have enough nitrogen content to not need synthetic fertilizer nitrogen added. I had mine tested as though it were soil and they said it was perfect.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 18:49:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 18:53:05 GMT
I have always made my garden twice as big as I needed. Half for garden and half for barn cleaning. The stuff broke down, but never heated up much. I battled weeds something fierce. Last year I just dumped the barn cleaning in I think all you need to do is add water and lots of it. Nothing decomposes without it. My current pile has 23 inches of rain in it. I also made it on a slope so water would run into it. Dry organic matter soaks up water and the water rises to the top. Do water your pile from the top, though. If I hadn't turned it the middle would be dry. The local compost yard turns theirs every time it gets water. When they let people have it, it is still wet and hot. A big pile will retain heat for more than a year. As soon as it is spread it loses its heat. Mass it part of the requirement for it to heat. I promote large piles. Mine have I know I need to add water but since rain is my water source here I just can't empty the cistern for pretty compost, it will wait, the critters (and I) need water now.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 19:06:33 GMT
We also have a compost pile. We don't have enough yet to cover our garden but we're working on it. One thing we do for pot plants, flowers, raised beds, tomato and pepper plants, etc. is to put about one coffee can of compost in a five gallon bucket and fill with water. We let this sit for a few days and then use this "rich water" to water out plants. Our tomato and pepper plants do great on this and my wife's flower pots are fantastic. Works better than those store bought fert. and is free.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 19:55:15 GMT
Of course you would need to add nitrogen (greens) and water if you do not get enough rain. I think the Carbon/Nitrogen balance takes care of itself eventually in the soil. I wouldn't go out of my way to find new compost sources while I've got more than I can shovel already. Use what you got, plant legumes now and then, and let nature balance it out. You only need the perfect nitrogen/carbon balance if you need your compost to be sterilized and also not smell...
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Post by paquebot on Jun 16, 2015 2:39:20 GMT
A lot of water is not required, the material needs only be damp. Some liken it to a wrung-out sponge. Too much water slows the process rather than accelerating it since the microherd needs oxygen to survive. Also, any water which passes through compost is rinsing nutrients out of it. I use both pile and tumbler methods and neither need extra water. If one has to add water, then there is not enough live green material. My tumbler batches are sometimes too wet just from daily scraps from the kitchen and freshly-mown grass.
Martin
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Post by whisperwindkat on Jun 16, 2015 11:20:10 GMT
A lot of water is not required, the material needs only be damp. Some liken it to a wrung-out sponge. Too much water slows the process rather than accelerating it since the microherd needs oxygen to survive. Also, any water which passes through compost is rinsing nutrients out of it. I use both pile and tumbler methods and neither need extra water. If one has to add water, then there is not enough live green material. My tumbler batches are sometimes too wet just from daily scraps from the kitchen and freshly-mown grass. Martin I agree. I rarely ever water a compost pile. Mine are too large for the water to do much more than wash off the top.
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Post by themotherhen on Jun 17, 2015 1:45:24 GMT
I have 2 compost bins that I am working on. One is grass/clippings and veg scraps with lots of dry leaves. The other is by the chicken coop and consists of the droppings and the long weeds that we trim and lay down for their bedding. Hopefully both bins work! Maybe I should mix some of each bins ingredients into the other bin?
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Post by paquebot on Jun 17, 2015 2:07:23 GMT
Doesn't really matter how many different bins or piles that one has. It all leads back to compost no matter how it's made or mixed. Grass and vegetable trimmings mixed with leaves is good. Chicken manure and bedding is good. If they both eventually end up in the same garden, doesn't matter where they are mixed as the overall value will be the same.
Martin
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 15:08:22 GMT
I think all you need to do is add water and lots of it. Nothing decomposes without it. My current pile has 23 inches of rain in it. I also made it on a slope so water would run into it. Dry organic matter soaks up water and the water rises to the top. Do water your pile from the top, though. If I hadn't turned it the middle would be dry. The local compost yard turns theirs every time it gets water. When they let people have it, it is still wet and hot. A big pile will retain heat for more than a year. As soon as it is spread it loses its heat. Mass it part of the requirement for it to heat. I promote large piles. Mine have I know I need to add water but since rain is my water source here I just can't empty the cistern for pretty compost, it will wait, the critters (and I) need water now. Understand and am very glad I'm not in you position
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 15:09:59 GMT
We also have a compost pile. We don't have enough yet to cover our garden but we're working on it. One thing we do for pot plants, flowers, raised beds, tomato and pepper plants, etc. is to put about one coffee can of compost in a five gallon bucket and fill with water. We let this sit for a few days and then use this "rich water" to water out plants. Our tomato and pepper plants do great on this and my wife's flower pots are fantastic. Works better than those store bought fert. and is free. Great way to stretch compost.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 15:10:29 GMT
We also have a compost pile. We don't have enough yet to cover our garden but we're working on it. One thing we do for pot plants, flowers, raised beds, tomato and pepper plants, etc. is to put about one coffee can of compost in a five gallon bucket and fill with water. We let this sit for a few days and then use this "rich water" to water out plants. Our tomato and pepper plants do great on this and my wife's flower pots are fantastic. Works better than those store bought fert. and is free. Great way to stretch compost.
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Post by comfortablynumb on Jun 17, 2015 15:11:04 GMT
We have cows, so we have compost. Ours is manure mixed with dirty hay bedding. This year, we converted half the garden to raised beds, which are all being filled with compost. The soil here is SWPA is so bad -- clay and rocks -- that it's easier to garden in raised beds and containers rather than trying to improve it! iIt depends on where you are dear... up on the hill here its a rocky mess, but those holler dwellers got all out topsoil a foot or more deep. but who wants to live in a holler..... them what git flooded and whatnot.
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Post by oggie on Jun 17, 2015 15:34:29 GMT
I'm a pretty bad composter.
I tend to move a lot of material to the area in which I compost but, more often than not, it pretty much just sits there.
When I make the effort to layer the material and turn it regularly, I get usable compost fairly quickly.
But usually, piles of grass clippings by themselves decompose very slowly. And the piles that have been layered with soil and material that's more brownish sometimes go a good bit between turnings. So, I sometimes end up with 6x6x4-foot piles that are basically going nowhere.
They just sit until I use the material for mulch or actually make the necessary effort to properly mix and turn the piles.
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Post by paquebot on Jun 17, 2015 16:57:39 GMT
Grass is virtually water standing on edge. Fresh clippings may be 85% water. The water does little to aid the decomposition process after the initial fast release of the nitrogen. Nitrogen is the fuel for composting and will not be replaced by itself once it has been used up. By that, a batch that has gone from hot to cold will never revert to hot if there's no nitrogen. Then it's different form of life which take over to finish the job more passively.
My tumbler is an example of an in-between stage right now. It is so wet and heavy that it was very difficult to turn this morning. It is also still warm from the latest 30 gallons of grass clippings added 4 or 5 days ago. Normally I would not have added more greens for another heat cycle except that some cull pigeons were not fully "cooked". I expect it to be cooled in a few days and then dumped and allowed to go through an additional curing process before it is ready for the garden. Shredded oak leaves from last fall at the ready to begin the summer batch.
Martin
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Post by themotherhen on Jun 17, 2015 17:50:10 GMT
Doesn't really matter how many different bins or piles that one has. It all leads back to compost no matter how it's made or mixed. Grass and vegetable trimmings mixed with leaves is good. Chicken manure and bedding is good. If they both eventually end up in the same garden, doesn't matter where they are mixed as the overall value will be the same. Martin Thanks Martin! Not having to mix the piles will save me a lot of time.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 22:44:03 GMT
Of course you would need to add nitrogen (greens) and water if you do not get enough rain. I think the Carbon/Nitrogen balance takes care of itself eventually in the soil. I wouldn't go out of my way to find new compost sources while I've got more than I can shovel already. Use what you got, plant legumes now and then, and let nature balance it out. You only need the perfect nitrogen/carbon balance if you need your compost to be sterilized and also not smell... If nature takes care of itself, why do we have what is called worn out soil?
To some extent I agree with you on the nitrogen issue. For instance if one digs in high carbon (browns) there will be a nitrogen deficiency for a while. The reasons is it takes nitrogen to decompose the browns. We do get nitrogen from rain. I was surprised to find that out.
A perfect balance will not sterilize your compost. Compost is sterilized for commercial transport and sale across state lines and for potting soil. I want the live organisms in my compost. It is an important part of building the soil.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 23:10:53 GMT
A lot of water is not required, the material needs only be damp. Some liken it to a wrung-out sponge. Too much water slows the process rather than accelerating it since the microherd needs oxygen to survive. Also, any water which passes through compost is rinsing nutrients out of it. I use both pile and tumbler methods and neither need extra water. If one has to add water, then there is not enough live green material. My tumbler batches are sometimes too wet just from daily scraps from the kitchen and freshly-mown grass. Martin Lots of things are relative. My use of lots of water means until it is damp as you say, yes you can have to much water. My current pile has 25 inches of rain on and in it. I thought it would be slimy and got some sawdust to dry it up some. Started digging into it and darn stuff was hot as a pistol. Surprised I was. Yes air is also a requirement and is why some sources say twigs should be part of the pile. yes you can have to much water Sometimes I use them to keep the dogs from digging.
I get lots of grinder tub offal. This is yard trimming material that is mixed and run through a grinder tub. It is loaded with a 7 yard FEL bucket. In the spring through summer it gets a lot more greens. They run huge sprinklers on it. Those sprinklers would knock you down at 200 feet. Then they turn it with a huge machine to get the water into and through out the pile. In the fall it has way more browns. Both make good compost but are different products both having pros and cons.
For me I get the grinder tub offal (I understand many do not have access to such) and pile it up for a couple years. I might water and turn it. If I do not water it, it will dry out in the middle. I do not have a closed system like your tumbler. My piles are huge as the OP says. I would estimate my piles having at least 100 cubic yards to start with.
Let the water run through it and on down the slope. I get benefits that way as well.
I do not mean to demean or devalue what you post. Those who are limited need what you say. Essentially if one just piles things up they will have some results, just not as fast.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 23:16:01 GMT
A lot of water is not required, the material needs only be damp. Some liken it to a wrung-out sponge. Too much water slows the process rather than accelerating it since the microherd needs oxygen to survive. Also, any water which passes through compost is rinsing nutrients out of it. I use both pile and tumbler methods and neither need extra water. If one has to add water, then there is not enough live green material. My tumbler batches are sometimes too wet just from daily scraps from the kitchen and freshly-mown grass. Martin I agree. I rarely ever water a compost pile. Mine are too large for the water to do much more than wash off the top. Mine will take all the water I can put on it. Disappears like pouring water on course sand with no dirt. I make my piles to catch rain run off. We have had a very unusual amount in the last 60 days breaking all records kept here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 23:18:13 GMT
Doesn't really matter how many different bins or piles that one has. It all leads back to compost no matter how it's made or mixed. Grass and vegetable trimmings mixed with leaves is good. Chicken manure and bedding is good. If they both eventually end up in the same garden, doesn't matter where they are mixed as the overall value will be the same. Martin That seems to be pretty much true.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 23:27:27 GMT
I'm a pretty bad composter. I tend to move a lot of material to the area in which I compost but, more often than not, it pretty much just sits there. When I make the effort to layer the material and turn it regularly, I get usable compost fairly quickly. But usually, piles of grass clippings by themselves decompose very slowly. And the piles that have been layered with soil and material that's more brownish sometimes go a good bit between turnings. So, I sometimes end up with 6x6x4-foot piles that are basically going nowhere. They just sit until I use the material for mulch or actually make the necessary effort to properly mix and turn the piles. My grass gets hot and slimy before I can finish mowing. So when I use it for compost I pile it on the compost pile as thin as I can dump the bag. It tends to dry more like hay that way. I them put a thin cover on it from the top of the pile. Do spoiled taters the same way.
I have let piles dry out for a year and then just mix them in with a new pile or grass and water.
It does make pretty good mulch if it is fine material. Otherwise I have a weed problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 23:29:33 GMT
Grass is virtually water standing on edge. Fresh clippings may be 85% water. The water does little to aid the decomposition process after the initial fast release of the nitrogen. Nitrogen is the fuel for composting and will not be replaced by itself once it has been used up. By that, a batch that has gone from hot to cold will never revert to hot if there's no nitrogen. Then it's different form of life which take over to finish the job more passively. My tumbler is an example of an in-between stage right now. It is so wet and heavy that it was very difficult to turn this morning. It is also still warm from the latest 30 gallons of grass clippings added 4 or 5 days ago. Normally I would not have added more greens for another heat cycle except that some cull pigeons were not fully "cooked". I expect it to be cooled in a few days and then dumped and allowed to go through an additional curing process before it is ready for the garden. Shredded oak leaves from last fall at the ready to begin the summer batch. Martin Great description of grass.
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