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Post by kawaiitimes on Mar 31, 2015 23:23:58 GMT
We are probably two years out from getting things in order to build. We still have to clear out MIL's estate so that FIL can sell, move him to our current home, prep our home for renting and somewhere in there buy some property with the equity from FIL's house. So, this (sadly) isn't a construction project for tomorrow.
However, we have had some cursory plans drawn up for a 24'24' hand hewn log home with a full walk-out basement and a sleeping loft. I don't feel like we are romanticizing living in the log cabin. I know it isn't going to have the same insulation properties, won't have the same on-grid conveniences (which is part of why we're doing this whole thing to begin with), etc. But we do want it to be a sturdy home that is ours, that we have had a hand in constructing, and that will last a lifetime.
Long story short, everyone who finds out about this whole cabin idea keeps telling me all the reasons we shouldn't live in a log cabin. My family is pushing to have a stick-built home by a major construction company built instead, but I feel like that is just because those houses have more "curb appeal" to city buyers? We intend our next house to be our "forever" house, so we couldn't care much less about what might appeal to the masses.
Anyway, today's reason #99 that we shouldn't build a log cabin is bees. My Grandmother says everyone she's ever known (which she later admitted was one person with two log cabins in South Carolina) has had problems with wood boring bees.
Good people of the woods: what are your thoughts and suggestions in this matter?
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Post by wally on Apr 1, 2015 0:29:19 GMT
I also would think twice about a traditional log home, have you thought about a "modern home" with todays benefits but finish with a log cabin look.. sorry i know about as clear as mud right. My thoughts are something like a log looking siding and using the same siding as your interior wall finish
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Post by Melissa on Apr 1, 2015 0:48:52 GMT
We built an earth-bermed home, three sides in the hillside with the front open, out of concrete block. We covered the block with roof slate. Then we put all the logs inside, so much easier to maintain.
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Post by kawaiitimes on Apr 1, 2015 4:02:28 GMT
We are not doing the whole round log (Lincoln log style) home. We just couldnt afford it. The exterior walls will be hand hewn rectangular logs, which I understand will need some maintenance but I'd rather seal wood every now and again than have to tape and paint or deal with siding. We plan on a metal roof.
We looked at earth houses, Cobb buildings, etc, but there aren't appropriate codes for those building types where we want to be. We could do it anyway and apologize later, but I don't want to have to do a tear down in the future because of pencil pushers.
My main issue with modern construction is that it just seems like houses aren't built that well with modern materials / techniques. We have been hoping that the log home would be... I don't know... More durable, with less offgassing and chemical irritants (DH is allergic to every lab chemical known to man) I guess.
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Post by kawaiitimes on Apr 1, 2015 4:03:07 GMT
We built an earth-bermed home, three sides in the hillside with the front open, out of concrete block. We covered the block with roof slate. Then we put all the logs inside, so much easier to maintain. Do you have photos somewhere? It sounds lovely. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 4:52:56 GMT
Build the log house on top of a conventional floor structure. Put porches on weather sides to protect the logs. 3' overhangs are good for non weather sides. Good gutters and down spouts to keep down wind driven roof runoff. Personally I like the D shaped logs in the biggest size, wider, more insulating value. I think B-I-Ls were 8"x11". I would use pre built insulated panels for the roof over the big ceiling logs, they are hoisted on, 2" tongue and groove ceiling, 12" rigid foam insulation with plywood panels on top, roofing felt and standing seam roofing. My B-I_L built his cabin addition this way. Much better insulated and looks like original log construction....James
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 5:06:46 GMT
I designed, and DH has helped me to build, a modified post and beam house similar to this: FirstDay Cottage
It's almost entirely dimensional lumber as well as 1x and 2x tongue & groove. I have a total of about 9 sheets of plywood in the entire thing for the sole purpose of creating shear walls (the wind blows a little out here  ) And considering how slow I work, those 9 panels should be pretty much done off-gassing by the time we actually get to move in lol Using standard lumber means it was easier to procure, as well as MUCH easier to work with, than large logs. But I didnt have my heart set on log, either. Of course, on the high plains, I've always thought log houses look kind of out of place... |
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Post by solargeek on Apr 1, 2015 5:42:19 GMT
 We designed and had Rapid River Rustic Cedar (out of Rapid River Michigan) a green built, solar powered, solar heated and wood stove heated solid white cedar log home. I have to get to bed cause early up tomorrow but will post a ton for you. We loved it. If you can do it, do it. I took this picture of the back of the house (we built into a hill also). |
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Post by Jolly on Apr 1, 2015 13:54:24 GMT
You can get the look of hand-hewn logs by using a broadaxe to "trim" bandsaw cut logs. You're going to be much happier in the long run with a rectangular log, rather than the traditional round or semi-round log. You can decide on butt-n-pass or dovetail construction, but the old homes still standing used dovetail. Dovetail jig plans are readily available on the web.
There's a lot to be said for post & beam. Well done, it lasts for an incredibly long time. Plus, it gives you some big, wide interior spaces, if you want that.
Lastly, I don't know the codes in your area, but I've helped build a few houses from local lumber down here. By local, I mean using the owner's timber and having a bandsaw mill cut out the house. In each case, we used nominal sized lumber, which makes for a much stronger house. Where needed, such in the walls, we'd run the boards through a big planer to make sure the widths were the same -thickness doesn't matter much as long as you're on center. Exterior-wise, I've seen both board-n-batten and shiplap...Some bandsaw mills can tilt the head, so that one side of the board is consistently thinner than the other, resulting in some pretty shiplap siding.
Regardless of what you decide, it sounds like the hubby is allergic to the off-gassing of many of the man-made materials in the interior finish. So if you want to, avoid those products and it probably doesn't matter if you build conventional brick veneer. Use wood on the walls instead of sheetrock. Check out different ceiling materials - I've seen barn tin, new stamped tin, tongue-in-groove flooring used as ceiling, etc. Paint with low-volatile or milk paints. Use tile, wood and other natural materials for your floors. Have your cabinets locally built and you pick the materials. Use natural materials for your countertops (and it doesn't have to be granite. My cousin has beautiful countertops made from oak parquet flooring).
At the end of the day, plan well and enjoy. You're not building a house, you're building a home.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 21:50:56 GMT
We built an earth-bermed home, three sides in the hillside with the front open, out of concrete block. We covered the block with roof slate. Then we put all the logs inside, so much easier to maintain. You know... I think it's about time for a rehash, update of your story and your house and pictures. |
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Post by solargeek on Apr 1, 2015 22:32:47 GMT
My daughter was also very chemically sensitive and we moved over and over to find a house in which she could be healthy. So many docs, hospitals and on. I worked in the environmental area so did a full year's research in 2002 before moving forward. She slept in the same bedroom as her sister, went to the same schools and shared friends so no one could figure out why she was missing MONTHS of school and always always sick with really bad stuff (pneumonia, bronchitis, fevers....) We also wanted 100% due south exposure for our solar panels on roof. That meant the front of the house took a real sun beating each day. As with Melissa, the house was earth-bermed on N, E and W to insulate with the earth. Heating costs were extremely low. Used a Lopi Liberty to heat the whole house- often had to open windows as it just stayed so warm inside. What we found was
Chemical free/green building was in its infancy in Milwaukee in 2001-2002. But we used: *radiant heat (floor or radiators), * no chemicals except for water based (i.e. varnish for wood floors was a product called "street shoe" and did not offgas after 1st heat cycle), * NO carpeting at all, tile or hardwood or concrete flooring *All cabinetry had to be solid wood (even interior shelves) and when finished (again with water based finish) left to offgas for at least 2 months not in the house and exposed to heat *Walls 100% wood or wood covered except 4 drywall covered walls. NO FINISH on the cedar walls, unsealed. *No glues in the house except for California approved NO VOC formulas - yes the workers hated this rule till they met our little girl and heard her story. *All sealants (the bead of caulk in the corners for example) were NO VOC. All paints NO VOC and NO dark colors as that adds VOCs. *We did not use chinking; we used the groove method with the foam gasket. The gasket was completely encased by 3" of wood so no problem. Critters/insects. We were in the woods. *We had critter/insect guard screening under our deck porches and all screened in porches. *Those crazy not-ladybugs that swarm came to WI. The outside of the house did need to be sealed but we found that using a slightly darker stain rather than the clear coat we first put on prevented them landing as the wood got too warm. Did not get wood bees. We did have the biggest surprise of "wood wasps" inside! Not a wasp at all - just look like one. They came out the 1st spring (about 20 of them but they are 3" long!) but did no harm, lived a day or 2 avoiding us, and then died. Naturally, not squished. Myths on Log homes -- they are "super insulated" not cold and drafty if built correctly. We rarely turned on our radiant heat (1x per year at most) and often did not fire up the wood stove till mid November (WI is cold but our house was engineered to be passive solar with heat stored in the 4" concrete floors over which we had dark tile put in to soak up the winter sun-- then the overhangs in summer prevented sun so very cool.) The thermal value of the wood wall - ours were 7" rounded butt and pass white northern cedar - was way beyone what we hoped for. But our designers were good and our builder was excellent. House was featured in a Log Home DesignMagazine (nationwide) and a local Milwaukee magazine for its thermal and solar properties. Healthwise: THE PROOF WAS IN THE PUDDING. DD#2 only missed 5-6 days the first year in the house LESS than the healthy sister. She was fine the whole time we lived there. When she went to Purdue and UW-Milwaukee, all the health issues returned sadly. We also "green built" the current home (even though she is now married and not here except visiting/staying for holidays). Ok there are some basics. Costs were higher than stick built but we cut corners on appliances (Home Depot stuff) and I got great deals on tons of the finishing materials like toilets/baths and such. Came in on budget. Hope this helps, PM me if you want specifics - here is the front of the house.  |
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Post by kawaiitimes on Apr 1, 2015 22:39:35 GMT
This does help immensely. Our current house has no carpet since we have pets and I hate fleas. We recently discovered DH is allergic to many kinds of glue. Glad we aren't the only ones who deal with this stuff!
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Post by mollymckee on Apr 2, 2015 2:51:23 GMT
One of my DH's April farm magazines had an article about a place in Missoula that is building traditional log homes out of concrete logs that have fiberglass mixed in. The homes look like real log homes but are maintenance free. If anyone is interested I'll try to find it. I have no idea how the costs compare.
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Post by veronica on Apr 2, 2015 11:37:14 GMT
Our ongoing project is our barn house originally built in 1900. It is timberframe construction.  Here's a pic of the inside.  It's a bit hard to see but you can seem some of the beams. |
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Post by kawaiitimes on Apr 2, 2015 14:51:32 GMT
That is gorgeous!
The concrete log cabins sound interesting. I'll have to see if I can find something like that on the west coast.
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Post by Maura on Apr 2, 2015 17:03:51 GMT
It all depends on how it is built. There re several log cabins in our area. You have to work with someone who knows what they are doing. There are tips and tricks to making it cozy and not rot out on the bottom.
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Post by Muller's Lane Farm on Apr 2, 2015 17:13:17 GMT
.... However, we have had some cursory plans drawn up for a 24'24' hand hewn log home with a full walk-out basement and a sleeping loft ...... We intend our next house to be our "forever" house, If it is to be your "forever" house, you may want to re-think the sleeping loft. Stairs aren't the easiest when you get older! We built an earth-bermed home, three sides in the hillside with the front open, out of concrete block. We covered the block with roof slate. Then we put all the logs inside, so much easier to maintain. You know... I think it's about time for a rehash, update of your story and your house and pictures. Agree 100%!! Oh Melissa!!! |
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Post by kawaiitimes on Apr 2, 2015 18:44:33 GMT
If it is to be your "forever" house, you may want to re-think the sleeping loft. Stairs aren't the easiest when you get older! The plans we're using also have a bedroom on the main floor. Once DS grows up and moves out on his own, the loft would become guest quarters or long term storage & we'd migrate downstairs.  ETA: Hey! I made it to Junior Member! |
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Post by Cabin Fever on Apr 2, 2015 19:07:35 GMT
We went thru the same delimma that you are going thru before we built our home. We decided on stick built with 6" walls. The exterior is cedar-sided and the interior is pine walls, ceilings, and floors. There is NO sheetrock or carpeting in our home. When we show people photos of our place, I can't tell you how many of them call it a log cabin! LOL   |
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Post by kawaiitimes on Apr 2, 2015 19:21:08 GMT
Wow Cabin Fever, that is a gorgeous place!
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Post by graywolf on Apr 2, 2015 19:31:48 GMT
We considered a log home before we built this house. Our insurance company would not cover a log home this far out and only a volunteer fire department. Their logic was that if there was even a small fire that only burned part of a few logs, reolacing them would entaill a major project. Unlike a stick house with the same little bit of damage. (They would be happier if it burnt all the way rather than paying for repairing/replacing a bunch of logs.). Yes, there are lots of insurance companies but we like the one we've had forever - and they are covering a few odd business things for us that would cost a lot if we started with a new outfit.
Don't know if you are planning on insuring your place but you might ask....and maybe be open to changing if you have to.
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Post by kawaiitimes on Apr 2, 2015 19:36:34 GMT
I hadn't even thought of that. We also have one company that covers all of our various ventures. I'll give them a call and see what they say!
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Post by pammysue on Apr 2, 2015 21:49:41 GMT
Beautiful home Cabin Fever.
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Post by graywolf on Apr 2, 2015 22:49:31 GMT
I hadn't even thought of that. We also have one company that covers all of our various ventures. I'll give them a call and see what they say! Let us know what they say. Things probably have changed a lot in 11 years since we built. |
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Post by lilith on Apr 3, 2015 6:15:41 GMT
I have built several off grid cabins with my family's construction company (I'm including pictures of the most recent). So, my opinions are from a contractor's point of view. 1. Permits, insurance, construction liability, and good old fashion know how are all in short supply when it comes to log built homes. Engineering is not available for support structures and beams at a decent price, and building inspectors just have no clue about this type of construction - and therefor will not sign off on most critical methods for log construction. Basically - it is next to impossible to get an occupancy on a log structure in most areas. Therefor, you can not close out a building loan on a log structure, and as a result, very very few places will lend you the money to build a log home. 2. insulation: log homes have a great r-factor, what it is depends on each log in your home and often the r- factor is underestimated. This can lead to problems with getting your permits signed with a building inspector. As you can see, from a contractor point of view - one who has been there done that.... the building inspector is your worst nightmare even if you can get financing to build this way. Now - you have another option. Half log "siding" on a custom built home. I say custom built home because you are right, cookie cutter contractors do shoddy work. They are companies who build 10 houses a year with 50 employees they got at some temp agency. Find a general contractor who is ONLY going to build your house, and do most of the work themselves. Yes, you will pay the price for hiring a contractor who does quality work that will last for generations, but every dime is worth it! If you can't find one in your area, get ahold of me! We work in Oregon all the time. If you build your home to code the stick build way then add solid log siding (we have an awesome source for this) and a cold roof under metal, you can have the best of all worlds. Front view of the house  under the stairs, living room and kitchen with center log support beam.  Loft looking down on livingroom. Yes those are exposed log floor joists.  Livingroom, kitchen, and dinning room (better view of log floor joists)  This "log cabin" is off grid (solar system built and maintained) and meets all building code and inspections. It is also about 40 miles from the nearest town, and I may just have to evict the owners if zombies ever showed up in my hometown. It has 4 acres of riverfront property, surrounded by wilderness, 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, and came with a price tag of about $500K - it appraised for about 1.5 million last year. |
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Post by kawaiitimes on Apr 3, 2015 10:31:00 GMT
That is a gorgeous home, Lilith! And great information as well.
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Post by farmchix on Apr 3, 2015 10:51:37 GMT
Do your research and then make the decision on what is right for YOU. I let my dreams of living in a cabin be squashed about 15 years ago....and I have regretted it ever since. *sigh*
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Post by kawaiitimes on Apr 3, 2015 22:08:08 GMT
Do your research and then make the decision on what is right for YOU. I let my dreams of living in a cabin be squashed about 15 years ago....and I have regretted it ever since. *sigh* I think it's likely that we'll build one. We may start with something simpler/stick built initially to establish dominance - er - residence. But in the end, we are pretty difficult to sway once we have our mind made up - although there is a lot to consider and a lot of ways to go about it as all the posts above show. |
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Post by solargeek on Apr 4, 2015 0:56:12 GMT
Altho I am sure the information Lillith provided on the difficulty of building/permits/inspections all may apply, we built in a very small town outside Milwaukee and made sure the inspector knew his stuff and ours.
I pre-met with him with our plans, (we had to get a variance unrelated to building regarding our land) and told him why we were doing it (DD) and what our goals were.
The, I met again with him (me, just a housewife, no building knowledge other than research), brought muffins for the entire town department (4 poeple haha), and went through my research on log building with him.
Research included:
log R-factors,
woodstove research/EPA approvals,
green building checklist,
no sump pump due to swaling the hill behind us (dry as a bone lower level walkout), and
the 12/12 roof pitch -there was a height limitation but our solar panels were going on the roof and needed the pitch. He suggested how we could "lower" the house to meet the height limit, and lastly,
very important landscape plan to not flood neighbors and road below.
Rapid River Rustic did all the design work except we hired solar engineers for the very important overhangs on the south side.
American Family insurance had no problem with the woodstove heat (Lopi's woodstoves - at least the Liberty -- was EPA approved) or that it was a log home without any furnace. None. And only the great room and 3 bedrooms had any radiator heat in addition to the wood stove.
Our builder was our contractor. We went out and met every worker each week and since it was a 6 month build, and DH works for a beer company, 1 Friday a month we called to see who was there and brought each worker a 12-pack of beer. I also brought out regularly sausage and cheese platters or muffins. We had a party for all the workers, builder and contractor at the end of the build to say Thank YOU.
So reach for your dream. Do your homework and our house at 2800 sqft, 3 car garage (under the great room see the picture), and 2 big screened in porches with poured cement floors in the big one and really great finishes (granite counters, 100% wood cabinets throughout the home, Kohler bath fixtures)did not cost what the other person listed on here (except when you add in the land.)
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Post by lilith on Apr 4, 2015 6:48:42 GMT
I like SolarGeek's suggestions! And yes, I can vouch that motivating (bribing) your builders and contractors is HIGHLY effective! The preacher who made us lunch on the job site to show his appreciation got so much more "free" work out of our crew than the Doc who just wrote us a check! The Doc got high quality work and exactly what he paid for - the preacher's service to us by making us lunch each day (he was useless with a hammer) made us want to put care and quality in each and every nail and cut! I wish I still had pictures of his place! The log work and mantel over his wood stove are just to die for! That was our extra gift to him for his kindness and courtesy on the job site! We used a log from a tree off his own property that had to be removed to build the house, the same piece of tree trunk him and his wife had carved their initials into on their first visit to the place when his dad owned the property. We didn't know till we installed the mantel that it was under that same tree where they shared their first kiss.
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) And considering how slow I work, those 9 panels should be pretty much done off-gassing by the time we actually get to move in lol
