I need some advice from experienced sheep people

[horseyrider]

There's a woman in our area that's one of the sweetest people ever.  She loves animals and....

You probably know where this is going.

First she had cats.  Someone in the area finally called the authorities because she had so many.  A dear friend of mine is a state licensed humane investigator, and was sent out to deal with the cat issue.  Turns out she has close to a hundred cats in her garage.  Some, of course, were very sick and had to be euthanized.  The rest were spayed/neutered, vaccinated, and put up for adoption, although she was allowed to keep a couple for pets.  Long ago, she hadn't had the money for fixing them and cats will do what cats will do, and this very nice lady found herself in a situation that was totally out of control.

This lady had chickens, too.  She told me one time she was sad to see how often she'd get her chickens raised up, only to lose them to predators.  Well, a drive-by reveals that she uses pallets and tarps at the bottom of a hill for coops.  No wonder she can't keep any chickens. 

So she got out of chickens.

Now she has sheep.  I remember seeing these sheep last year and thinking they had whopping wool coats on them, but certainly shearing would follow soon.  Well, it doesn't look like she did it in 2015, nor in 2014 either.  They look almost as wide as they do long.

I know you can't leave dogs or cats with such a situation; the hair will mat, collect all sorts of junk, and eventually the maggots move in.  I've heard people in Animal Control talk about surrendered or confiscated pets that cannot eliminate due to the mats on their butts.  I can't imagine that it'd be any different for sheep.

I like this lady, I really do; but she clearly has no idea of stewardship, nor the funds to support them if she finds out she's off-base.  Sadly, I'm going to have to turn her in.  But I need to know more from experienced people about the dangers of not shearing wool sheep for long periods, about the health risks, and about the timing and procedure for proper shearing.  It'd be great to hear if anything can be done at this time of year for them, short of stripping them down.  Other than the hillside, which is on the north, they have no shelter to speak of.  Chances are high that they'll remain with her, as the laws in our state pretty much stick with providing feed, water, and *reasonable* shelter; but I know they'll follow up and suggest surrender if she doesn't comply with their suggestions.  I have no desire to confront her or embarrass her.  She's not a bad person at all.  She's just incredibly ignorant, and the animals are paying the price.

Can you help me help these sheep?

[Deleted]

Oh dear horseyrider, what an awful situation for everyone - you, her and the sheep.

Over here's it's illegal not to shear sheep once a year, although every now and again you'll read stories of the sheep that got away and 'ran for the hills' only to reappear several years later with a coat so thick and heavy it's record-breaking.

In short, yes, IMHO these sheep will need doing asap, and definitely before winter strikes. If the weather is getting really bad, shearers can use cover combs to leave a bit of wool on that will give a bit of protection. Sheep are pretty resilient, even in cold weather, but if they get rain or snow on an already heavy coat, it puts extra pressure on the animal. As with dogs and cats, if the fleece felts, it's a lot harder to shear.

They'll also probably need treating for lice, and would benefit from having their feet checked/trimmed prior to winter as well. Once the fleece is off the actual state of the sheep can be determined - it may be that they need drenching if they're very skinny, or will need treatment if suffering from fly-strike but you won't necessarily know that until you can see beneath the fleece.

Fortunately, all this can be done at the same time - shearers are usually pretty good at tidying up sheep and doing whatever else is necessary while they've got hold of them, including checking teeth. Any with poor teeth will find it hard to eat grass, so should probably be culled unless she can provide them with adequate alternative, easier to eat feed.

Re shelter - those pallets she was using for the chickens could be put to good use to build temporary shelters for the sheep.

I have some good links on sheep care if you'd like me to email them to you so you can give her. PM me if you'd like me to send them.

I understand she's not a bad person, and it's good of you to care about her and her animals. This can easily have a good outcome, so first thing is to find a shearer. :-)

Edit: just so you know I understand  her situation, my own sheep are in a really ratty condition at the moment - lice is rampant in the area and everyone's sheep are scratching. My usual shearer gave up this year and I've had terrible trouble finding a replacement, but found one at last a week ago and he's coming out within the next 10 days to do mine and our neighbour's sheep. I'd hate for any of my sheep breeding friends to see them as they are right now.

[Maura]

Call AC. You already know the woman’s history, so you know the problem isn’t the shearer retiring. When sheep are shorn in cold weather their skin is stimulated and the wool will grow very fast initially. People I know who shear in cold weather keep the sheep in a barn until their coat comes in. The barn is cold, but out of the wind. AC may not allow her to even keep the sheep, which might be wise. Does this woman need a guardian? The county or state can assign someone to check up on her and how she is doing. This would keep someone coming around to check on pets as well as make sure her bills are getting paid and nobody is taking advantage of her.

[Deleted]

Have you tried having a talk with her? Maybe telling her that she HAS to get those sheep sheared because their health will suffer if she doesn't will make an impression. She sounds like someone who purchased sheep without really knowing what was needed to take care of them. Perhaps it will be enough to point out that they are suffering if she's really someone who loves animals.

[Callie]

They need to be sheared. One way to help her would be to find a shearer for her- that's not always easy to do. I'd also have a good chat with her - if she needs help understanding all the work (and $$) that goes into animals, perhaps you can help her tally it up and get the full picture. Maybe her time would be better served working as a volunteer at the shelter to get her 'animal fix' rather than bringing the next ones home.

[Deleted]

How did you get on horseyrider?

[horseyrider]

Thanks for asking, sorry I didn't get back to y'all sooner. I took some pics, got her address, and talked to Animal Control. Then I did some more research, and honestly, I'm not sure it's appropriate to go to the next step yet.

I took the pics home and tried to research breeds. From what my inexperienced eyes can tell, she has two angora goats and two Shetland sheep. The goats don't look as bad as the sheep. The sheep barely have their feet showing, but from what I understand, Shetlands can go through a shedding process called "rooing." I found pictures online of Shetlands that were clearly their breeder's pride, with coats that were definitely neater and a little shorter than the ones I was looking at, but I'm not qualified to say when it crosses over the line from an extra-fluffy luxuriant coat to abuse. If they do indeed shed, she needn't shear; and at this point in time, I see no reason to embarrass her with an inquiry, or embarrass AC by sending them on a fool's errand.

Both the head AC guy and the county AC veterinarian are people I know well, so I will continue to watch. And if it ever becomes a problem, I will not hesitate to report it. I know they trust my judgment, so when I told the AC guy what I was seeing, he agreed that watch and wait is the best solution for now.

I thank you for the bit of education I got here! I appreciate the opportunity to benefit from your experience.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the update horseyrider . It's very kind of you to care about your friend and her animals. It's good that you've had the OK signoff from AC and that they're happy with the current situation.

I guess the only thing that bothers me is that you said it didn't look like the sheep had been shorn in 2014 or 2015. I would have thought that they should have shed by now if they were going to. While it's true that purebred Shetland sheep can shed their fleece in spring, if the ones your friend has a crossbred with something else, they may not. With winter coming on over there, I worry about the extra weight of a 2-year old (at least) wet fleece on the sheep and also it is hard to tell what condition they're in with all that wool on. That much fleece can hide a number of ills. Also the apparent lack of shelter for the goats in particular is a bit of a worry. They're very prone to the cold/wet, whereas sheep are more resilient.

If nothing is planned for checking the sheep and goats until after winter, it might still be prudent to locate a shearer so you know there's one handy if necessary in spring :-) Also, the condition of their feet and teeth should be checked - both can cause feeding problems (feet in poor condition can hamper searching for food, and bad teeth can cause difficult eating, leading to not enough food being ingested. Your friend won't necessarily notice a problem if she can't see the condition of the frame under all that wool. :-)

Sorry to be a worry-wart but if your friend truly has little idea of what sheep and goats need, is there any way you can gently encourage her to learn more about them?

Edit: one other thing: how much land do they have for grazing and does she move them around so they get fresh pasture and not live on the same pasture for long periods? If they're not moved regularly, then the worm burden can become serious, which will need managing. This can be mitigated to a degree if the land gets hard frosts which will kill the worm lavae, but can become a serious issue in spring/summer. Sheep and goats carry the same worm issues, unlike mixed grazing between, say, cows or horses and sheep which helps keep worms in check because of the different lengths of pasture both species eat.

[horseyrider]

Thanks, @kiwifarmgal. I do need to correct some misinformation here. The sheep owner in question is not a friend of mine, she's barely an acquaintance; but being a small town, and living within a few miles of each other, well, you know how that is. The state licensed humane investigator that dealt with the sheep lady because of her cats is a very close friend. In fact, my friend called me first about this woman because she knew the woman lives sort of close to me, and wanted to get any information she could before she knocked on her door. Sorry if I haven't been clear. I've only spoken to the lady with the sheep a couple of times, when she admired first my chicken coop, and then my turkey coop. She asked if she could see them; then, as this very nice person conversed, I realized exactly who she was. Of course, I would never disclose to her any conversation I'd had with my friend the humane investigator.

The location of the sheep and goats is the south side of a steep hill with a lot of tree protection in the surrounding properties, so harsh winter winds aren't likely to be a problem; but I agree with you about the wet; it worries me. It does indeed get very bitter here at times, we've already had a morning that was 6 degrees above zero. Their area is mud with weeds, where all those chickens used to be. And although you and I might consider that poor stewardship for this type of animal, it's not illegal. The law requires pretty much that they have access to food and water, which can be a bucket twice a day and hay. Shelter is somewhat negotiable when it's livestock. My biggest fear for winter is that they'll lie down to rest, and freeze to the ground. Seriously.

If I'm ever Queen, I will forbid such 'care.' Until then, I'll watch and let AC know if things get worse. The good news is now AC has been informed, and I'm confident they'll move quickly if it gets bad.

[Deleted]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, horseyrider, when you said she was one of the sweetest people ever, I thought she was a friend. Oops. :-) Thanks for the clarification. In that case, you really have done all you could, so ignore my post. :-)

[Deleted]

Just want to say that I raise Shetlands and though some of them do roo their coats, others don't. It is a feature that has been bred out of a lot of lines in the US. If they have wool as long as you say, it doesn't sound like these sheep will roo, or will only do so partially and still have a lot of old growth on them. They will have to be sheared like any other breed if they don't have the genetics for rooing.

[horseyrider]

Woolieface, I really appreciate your input. I'd be grateful if you could offer links to what's appropriate for Shetlands, and what's too long. I do worry they'll freeze to the ground if they lie down in the mud.

[Deleted]

Here is a link to the NASSA site with pictures of various wool lengths, short to long. - www.shetland-sheep.org/about-shetlands/shetland-wool/shetland-fleece-types/

And here is a picture of one of my longer wooled ewes at the beginning of this November. -

Hope this helps

[Deleted]

Should have mentioned that the ewe on the right is a shorter wooled typed.

[horseyrider]

@woolieface, thank you for that picture. They're beautiful animals! Are the haircoats (or wool coats, I guess) typical? Are very long coats hanging below knees and hocks in November within the norm?

The sheep I've seen are horned. Do people dehorn Shetlands? I suppose if they're hornless like cattle, they could be crossbreds. Which would seem to limit the likelihood that they'd roo their coats.

I hope I don't seem to be asking too many stupid questions, and I don't want to ever accuse anyone of poor stewardship without being absolutely certain. Imagine someone coming to your door with a badge, telling you there have been complaints! Even the most careful person is going to feel a little hurt and defensive, even when it isn't true and they welcome inspection. I don't want to cause that embarrassment for anyone, especially if it's unwarranted. But the poor sheepies.... *sigh*

[Deleted]

Those coats are very typical. Most Shetlands fall into that range of length. Here is a picture of one that has Very long wool for the breed -

Not sure what time of year that picture of was taken.

No, people don't dehorn them. Typically the rams are horned and the ewes are not. Occasionally there are polled rams and ewes with small horns.

Can you get pictures of the sheep to post here? If the wool is old growth that should have been sheared it might likely look somewhat matted and ratty as well as too full.

[horseyrider]

Hers are every bit that long, if not a bit longer; and they look positively round and from a distance, like the beast is matted or felted. These sheep in the pics above look groomed.

I think I should pass on posting any pics. I feel a little squelchy posting pics of other people's critters without their knowledge or permission. I don't really have the right, you know?

It's pouring rain today, and I know wool will keep toasty even when wet. They're probably not getting wet to the skin anyhow, there's likely plenty of lanolin. But I bet it's so heavy. I will keep my eye on them this winter, and in the meantime, see if I can ask around about those who do shearing. Would it hurt to shear an animal that roos? I know some dog owners swear that shaving ruins the haircoat; but if they're totally matted, I fail to see any alternatives.

BTW, you're very kind to be so helpful. I'm learning here, and I will not forget. Thank you.

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2015 2:32:35 GMT horseyrider said:

Hers are every bit that long, if not a bit longer; and they look positively round and from a distance, like the beast is matted or felted. These sheep in the pics above look groomed.

I think I should pass on posting any pics. I feel a little squelchy posting pics of other people's critters without their knowledge or permission. I don't really have the right, you know?

It's pouring rain today, and I know wool will keep toasty even when wet. They're probably not getting wet to the skin anyhow, there's likely plenty of lanolin. But I bet it's so heavy. I will keep my eye on them this winter, and in the meantime, see if I can ask around about those who do shearing. Would it hurt to shear an animal that roos? I know some dog owners swear that shaving ruins the haircoat; but if they're totally matted, I fail to see any alternatives.

BTW, you're very kind to be so helpful. I'm learning here, and I will not forget. Thank you.

If they look really matted and very long as you say, I'm guessing they missed a shearing. That matted wool isn't too good for their skin...the Shetlands in the pictures have natural wool that looks like how it should look with no grooming required.

I completely understand not wanting to put the pics up here.

I would call large animal vets, 4h groups, anyone you can think of who might know shearers. We found ours through our vet and he only charges 4 bucks a sheep. Granted it gets harder to find someone to come out the fewer sheep you have, but if all else fails the sheep can even be trimmed down with scissors and a lot of patience. That's what we resorted to our first year with sheep...lol. They also sell manual shears which are something like specialized scissors for the job.

It won't hurt at all to shear a sheep that would otherwise roo. I have a few that do but we shear them with the rest because it gets hot out before they'll be ready to pull it and it's just not comfortable for them to wait. Plus it's good to have a nice shaved underside before lambs come. The wool will grow out just fine either way and I bet those ratty sheep will look a ton better.

You're very welcome. Glad I could help you and the sheep.