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Post by comfortablynumb on Jan 23, 2016 2:21:23 GMT
Pre OBD and OBD1 systems were/are a pain. The OBD2 and above are actually much easier to troubleshoot.
Yeah if the IAC motor is glitchy I sure will be trying to smooth out an idle it is actually causing.
Get thee to a parts store. lol
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Post by hermitjohn on Jan 23, 2016 22:35:34 GMT
I ordered a new MOTORCRAFT TPS, just to be absolutely sure that isnt the problem. Tried the generic one again today. Ranger acted the same whether I had generic one plugged in or nothing plugged in at all.
Anyway obvious this TPS is a very important part, so like to have a spare in glove box. A known working spare.
Out looking at those Chevy granny four speeds. And saw two old Chevy straight six engines. Both worked when plopped out in the weeds with tarp over them. Now one is locked tight. The other I noticed tarp had rotted right over the carburetor. Luckily it was tilted bit to carb side, so water puddled in the manifold rather than right into the cylinders. Though I took off manifold and some had gotten into head, but crankshaft still could be turned. Tomorrow I pull the head to see what if any damage water did to the cylinders. That was a really good engine when it was pulled.
I do think I could put one of the straight six chevy engines into Ranger. But its lot hassle, like when I put the Ford straight six into the old Ranger. Rangers werent designed for that long of an engine so lot puttering. However they do bolt right up to a chevy granny four speed. Cheap way to go. Exhaust is on wrong side for a Ford. HOwever manifolds are on drivers side so wouldnt interfer with heater box. And the Chevy oil pan sump is friendlier to the Ranger. Probably wouldnt have to be modified. YOu know, never tried Ranger air conditioner. That would have to go if I put a straight six into it. Though of all old jalopies I've owned only two had functioning air conditioner... so not big deal. Will see tomorrow if water got into cylinders of that better Chevy straight six. That might be way to go. Like say it is a good engine if water hasnt pitted the cylinders.
And today noticed Ranger radiator has a seam leak. Its one of those horrible aluminum/plastic radiators that tend to leak where metal meets plastic.
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Post by hermitjohn on Jan 25, 2016 18:28:52 GMT
Ok, tried the new Motorcraft TPS. This one works, if anything may have given engine bit more power. Be interesting if it improves fuel mileage. But still the high/low idle speeds, so pretty sure its a faulty IAC.
So going to make a plate so I can manually adjust air bleed and thus idle. If that doesnt work well, order a new Motorcraft IAC.
Thinking about it, probably could modify existing faulty IAC. I probably could reduce cold fast idle by making a gasket with smaller holes to reduce max air flow through the IAC. Make it so even fully open, only enough air gets through for maximum of 1200rpm. But to increase hot idle speed, would need a way for some air to bypass around the plunger as it seems to fully close at hot idle. Just enough air to prevent it going below 600rpm. Though if I added that air bypass, it would make idle on high side until plunger did fully close. Though the restricted gasket would still keep it under 1200rpm. Guess that wouldnt be horrible. It would keep IAC from making idle higher than 1200 or lower than 600. All without nuisance of using a choke cable to control it. It would still "look" factory.
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Post by hermitjohn on Jan 25, 2016 22:02:48 GMT
LOL! Well first I made gasket with 1/4" holes. Ones in casting that the gasket covers, are around half inch. And I drilled a bypass hole 3/16" between the two holes in the IAC casting to try to prevent stalling if IAC decides to close at hot idle. Seemed to slow it down, but computer seemed to out think me and found a work around. It would still go up close to 1500rpm and then idle down to 700 kinda rough idle, then idle down some more with really rough idle, and stall.
So decided to try shrinking holes some more and made a new gasket with holes 1/8". Ok now it would still fast idle about 1200rpm, then idle down to 800, but this time it was stable, didnt try to go below 800 and idle sounded better. Or seemed to be smoother. Just have to wait and see what it does next time I take it to town. I can live with 800rpm hot idle. I cant live with stalling or 1500 hot idle.
I did inspect the throttle body, its relatively clean, there is a hole drilled into the throttle plate at factory. At this point wondering if there indeed might be a manifold leak somewhere like Numb suggested. The only air at idle getting into the manifold should be through that hole in throttle plate or through IAC.
Gotta say right now, the old straight six chevy engine is looking more like not such a bad option.... It at least wont try and out guess me. If it wont idle, be because either manifold air leak or carb needs a kit. By way air conditioner doesnt work, no big surprise, so it can go bye bye in an engine swap.
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Post by hermitjohn on Jan 26, 2016 17:48:40 GMT
I have willows old truck engine all apart putting a lower intake gasket set in.... so I removed the fuel injectors and the fuel rail to clean them and replace o rings and gaskets. You problem could very well be old O rings sucking air, or making a loss of compression. Your fuel rail gasket or upper intake gaskets could be sucking air also. Even a small leak here or there can cause rough idle after warm up. When I I removed them on this one here, the lower intake bolts were almost finger tight.... not good. so were the upper intake bolts and also the injector O rings were hard and the injectors almost fell out. I think all these leaks were contributing to the idle problems it was having. Did you use the metal or fiber lower intake gaskets? The metal ones are lot higher priced, but instinct says thats probably way to go. Been long time since I dealt with V-engines but remember most used to use a big wide metal valley pan gasket under intake. And those were expensive, though I reused them successfully, well occasionally if not in horrible condition. They never came with engine gasket set, always separate. Having to go to such small holes on IAC gasket and still getting relatively high hot/cold idle makes me think there is a manifold air leak. Cutting IAC air down that much should frankly limit even cold idle to below 1000rpm. VEry small leak since engine will start and run, but... The hot idle stall from too lean of a mixture. I also got glimpse of large puff water vapor out the exhaust while engine HOT. Very much not good. Those things together plus what you said and reading that leaky lower intake gasket and antifreeze loss from such... In other words guess this is common on older 4.0L engines. Obviously not fun job on modern engine with all the unnecessary carp in the way, but you do what you have to do. Still too much winter left for me to want to swap engines yet, but this is like a one warm afternoon kind of job. Thats main reason I bought this Ranger, driveway too rough for Festiva anymore, and didnt much want to do all driving in my old F250 firewood truck. Traffic is pretty heavy in and around town anymore and nobody has any patience for slow ancient vehicles, though its big enough and ugly enough, few want to crowd me too much on freeway when I am driving it. Do have clueless idiots getting right up on my tail at traffic lights on hill, not realizing I have a manual transmission and am going to roll back little bit before I go forward. Ranger lot less stressful to drive in traffic. Not as easy as the Festiva, but easy enough. Festiva is just frankly the perfect grocery getter in town, to dart around in traffic, but not great on steep rough rocky driveways.
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Post by hermitjohn on Jan 28, 2016 22:02:24 GMT
Well I took it for a long drive in the city with stop and go. Only offered to try and stall once and think that was in transition period. Anyway much more pleasant not having it try to stall at nearly every hot idle, so no rush to try putting in new manifold gasket, though that eventually has to be done.
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Post by comfortablynumb on Jan 29, 2016 5:11:33 GMT
Fel pro makes a metal gasket w/rubber ports. It's a 2 piece set now, even ford doesnt make the old one piece intake gaskets.
CHeck your upper and lower intake bolts... they come loose on those engines for some reason, and suck air. Torqueing them down to spec might cure your problem.
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Post by hermitjohn on Jan 29, 2016 17:29:48 GMT
Ford makes a new one piece metal gasket with rubber ends. Ran across discussion whether to use the new Ford version or the newer two piece metal Fel Pro. Most went with Ford. Whatever their source for it, said the Ford gasket only $5 more than the FelPro one. They said the FelPro PermaDry plus one had cork ends not rubber, that the Ford one had rubber ends. Personally dont see why they dont just make the old style metal valley pan gasket and you just use silicone around each port on both sides of the gasket. Guess people too lazy for that, just like they cant roll up their own windows anymore, because their arm muscles have atrophied over the years through natural selection....
Victor Reinz and some company called Magnum also make two piece metal gasket. Victor Reinz lower intake gasket available alone, rest of them in sets. Victor Reinz gasket alone, not in a set, plus the other necessary gaskets bought separately seem to be the best deal if one goes with metal. The Magnum set seems best deal if one wants a set. Closeout price on FelPro one piece fiber gasket if you just want absolutely cheapest option out there. Its like $12 for whole set.
And no idea whether they are still made, but the older fiber one piece intake gaskets still easily available online. Probably just your local parts stores that no longer carry them. Heck if I were running a local brick and mortar parts store, I am not going to stock 10 varieties/brands gasket for one application. I am going to stock one recognizable brand like FelPro that covers the most applications using that gasket, and if customer wants something else, will special order it for them.
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Post by hermitjohn on Jan 29, 2016 17:53:39 GMT
On some of those Ranger forums, they said that sometimes you can get away with tightening bolts, but usually due to age of the gaskets installed, you should replace them. Torquing down old gasket can sometimes increase any leaking rather than stopping it, especially those old fiber gaskets. Ford stopped using the OHV 4.0L engine on Explorer in 2000 and on Ranger in 2002. So lot water under bridge since then. After that all 4.0L were OHC. The OHC engines used a PLASTIC intake manifold prone to cracking (some engineer needs a dope slap for that). Okie dokie, note to self, dont ever buy one with a OHC 4.0L engine.... Or only if I am buying body/chassis with intention of replacing the drivetrain with something reasonable.
I am still amazed how well this Ranger handles. Thats only reason I am putting much effort in this at all, its comfortable vehicle. The Ford engineers did very nice job there. And it being a 4wd chassis with high ground clearance no less. Usually that makes such vehicles kind of unstable to drive, especially on curves at speed.
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Post by comfortablynumb on Jan 30, 2016 1:34:49 GMT
Actually Mazda engineered that series.
The new fel pro gaskets have rubber on metal 2 piece not cork/rubber. The ford part is identical for twice the price, I was gonna go with fords but the parts dept showed me the gasket, and thats ALL ya get is the lower gasket.... same part as the new fel pro. Fel pro's kit has all the gaskets for upper lower and some other pieces.
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Post by hermitjohn on Jan 30, 2016 14:10:12 GMT
I only go to dealership if there is no other way to get a part and no workaround. I have no personal idea what local Ford dealerships charge, didnt call them, just what was mentioned in forum online. Sure it depends which dealership you price parts at, and which parts store you price the Felpro. Nice to know that both the Ford and the Felpro are metal and rubber now. On the Ranger forums they were saying Felpro had cork ends. The VictorReinz and Magnum and one other brand whose name I dont remember, were basically same metal/rubber. Once one company makes a popular improvement, then I suppose everybody plays follow the leader to remain competitive.
Like I say the cheapest online was $29 for the Victor Reinz metal/rubber two piece metal/rubber lower manifold gasket, just the two piece lower manifold gasket plus packet of ATV. Then trivial amounts money for various brands of the other needed gaskets and injector seals. Or could just buy that older Felpro complete kit with one piece fiber gasket for $12, just for the gaskets other than the lower manifold gasket. Works out to less than the $49 Magnum complete metal/rubber set. Or the $65 Felpro complete metal/rubber set.
I saw prices on forums mentioned for the Felpro kit $90 to well over $100. Similar for the Ford dealer gasket kit. So depends where you buy it. Different levels of greed for every taste and sensibility.
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Post by comfortablynumb on Jan 30, 2016 17:54:27 GMT
I paid around 50 bucks for the fel pro kit that has all the gaskets needed, top bottom and valve pans. Ford wanted 150 for just the lower intake.
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Post by hermitjohn on Jan 31, 2016 15:56:38 GMT
If you found the complete modern Felpro steel gasket kit for $50, you got a true bargain. I have not seen it less than $65 online though I have seen it much higher. The complete Magnum kit with steel gaskets was $49. Looked very similar. And like I say, I can beat that price buying the Victor Reinz lower two piece steel manifold gasket alone, then buying the rest of necessary gaskets individually.
Personally I think anything more than $25 for the entire set, no matter what brand, seems outrageous, but its a brave new world.
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Post by comfortablynumb on Feb 1, 2016 0:52:21 GMT
Advance Auto.
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Post by hermitjohn on Feb 1, 2016 15:46:52 GMT
It went out of buisiness here, for some unknown reason they built right next to a very established and popular O'Reillys and short distance from highly regarded NAPA that services the repair shops in the area. Not too far from AutoZone. They werent cheaper, they didnt provide more service or expertise, they didnt stock more parts. They are now closed. I stopped there once just cause I didnt want to wait in line at O'Reilly. Advance Auto store was empty, just the one minimum wage seat warmer guy behind the counter. Wasnt impressed.
Now there used to be a small independent. Not the cheapest, but seriously, he could get anything, was very familiar with lot cars and their usual problems, and it was high quality ALWAYS. But AutoZone and O'Reilly pushed him out buisiness. Now he had a loyal following, but the cheap prices back when AutoZone moved here was too powerful of a lure. And back then even if their quality control wasnt greatest, they did have great guarantee. So even if you had to go through three alternators to get a good one... rule of thumb was if its easy to replace, get it at Autozone and save serious money, if PITA to replace, get it at NAPA or that independent guy. Too bad the profit is in the easy to replace stuff.
And around here, the local parts stores dont stock lot stuff like they used to, cause everything can be here overnight, which means another trip to town to fetch it. Dont need more middlemen and driving, can usually order stuff lot easier and cheaper online. Even the formerly cheap AutoZone is not cheap anymore, plus they now make their counter help try to sell trivia when checking out. Talk about annoying. I do not want a long sales pitch for car air freshener, I just want to be on my way with my purchase.
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