baby goat problem

[farmin4fun]

Hi all, Looking for some advise please..I have a single and 2 sets of twins born night before last and I found them yesterday morning early. All three mamma's are first timers and they were not interested in the babies. Babies were very cold so I brought them into the barn and put under a lamp. When I got home at noon they were doing great. I gave them some store bought milk and they seemed fine. When I got home last night they were fine ( when I say fine I mean they were up walking around and wanting to eat.) they took more milk and another feeding. I kept them in the barn but did not put the lamp back on them. This morning when I went out the were all five down like they were when I first found them I got a little milk down them and put them back under the lamp.  Of course I couldn't miss work today so I'm hoping the are still alive when I go home at noon. I will tube them if I need to.  They went 7 hours between feedings is that what I did wrong? What should I have done differently so I'll know next time?   I do know that even with a couple I will need to bring them in and pen each mamma by herself when it time to have her babies.  Any advice will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

[Use Less]

Hope they are OK. Cows milk isn't good for goats. Are you able to milk any of the mothers? It might not be too late to get some colostrum into the kids. Others can help you better. Try admin Wendy.

[farmin4fun]

I lost 2 for sure.  Other 3 aren't looking very good. I put them back under the light so they have warmed up. They ate a little but I'll have to watch them close. This just make me sick. Thanks for the responds. I think I should have kept them under the light. It really wasn't that cold last night and they were in the barn. They did not get colostrum. I will have to try and get some and freeze it. Thanks again!!

[motdaugrnds]

I'm sorry you lost some of your kids. The learning curve for us goat owners can be heart breaking.

Not enough information for me to offer many suggestions. I would have liked to know how old the first-freshener dams were. (Sometimes does are simply bred too young and, when kidding, need their own momma to tell them what to do. Sometimes an older doe will offer that type of help...at least I've noticed this in my herd.)

Yes, it is a must the new kids get their dam's colostrum; so it is a good practice to tie that FF to a post and squeeze each teat to make sure they are not plugged up. Then what I do with a reluctant momma is hold her while her baby nurses and then pen them up together so they have to bond. (Must watch them closely if doing this OR know your goats well.) Keeping "frozen" colostrum is a good practice. There have been times when a doe would have too many kids and I would ultimately wind up bottle feeding one of them. At these times that frozen colostrum comes in handy; and it is easy to warm.

[Wendy]

My guess would be no, or not enough colostrum. I have not seen any kids survive without it. They need to have it within the first 12 hours or it will pretty much do no good. A lot of times if you hold new moms they will finally accept the kids. My brother held is doe 4 times day for the kid to nurse & finally after the 4th day she accepted the kid & they are both doing fine now. He did give the kid a bottle of colostrum he had gotten from me though. I have a lot of it frozen as I bottle feed all of my kids anyway.

[shellymay]

farmin4fun, I would also like to know how much you fed them the first time? and the few times after that you fed them?

[Deleted]

If they didn't get colostrum you will probably lose them all. Typically if you work with the moms a little they will accept the babies. Sometimes new moms are scared and don't understand what's happening.
Before you have more babies please read up on them. I have a ton of books and still go to them to refresh even after nearly 14yrs with goats.
God bless and good luck.

[manygoatsnmore]

Yes, they MUST have colostrum. And it has to be given before any regular milk is offered. Within the first 12 hours is ideal, but definitely within the first 24. The sooner, the better. After 24 hours or after regular milk is given, the receptors for the antibodies in the colostrum are closed and giving colostrum will do no good. The best colostrum is from the kid's own mother, next best is from another doe on the same farm, but in a pinch, ANY colostrum is better than none, even cow colostrum.

Next time, hold the new moms if they won't stand for the kids to nurse. If you can hobble the does, they may let the kids nurse. This might be a multi-person effort if you don't have a milking stand. If you don't, use the time before you have more kids to build a good sturdy stand that can handle a hopping, kicking, cranky doe. Include uprights at the rear of the stand that can be used to hobble her to if needed. If they still won't accept the kids, milk out the colostrum. Put 4 oz per bottle in the freezer (for future use) and 4 oz into each kid. Once they've had 4 oz of colostrum, they should be protected. Repeat the milking within 12 hours and save that colostrum, too. Of course, don't take so much that the kids are left hungry.

Keep trying the kids on the does - Wendy is right, the new moms are sometimes slow to come around, but often after a few days, they figure it out. Also, if you can separate the moms and their babies from the rest of the herd (and ideally from the other moms and their babies, as some does will steal other does' kids), it seems like the moms figure it all out sooner. Occasionally, you will get a doe that just won't accept a kid...you will just have to milk her twice a day and feed the kids. I start with 4 feeds a day of 8 oz each, gradually increasing the amount per feeding and decreasing the number of feeds per day. It's better to underfeed than overfeed - too much milk and they will scour (diarrhea). If they are still hungry after their bottle, you can fill the bottle with water and let them drink that.

You can feed kids on whole milk from the store...just make sure it is WHOLE milk. It's much better than using milk replacer if feeding goat's milk isn't an option.

One other thing that I've found really helps is to make sure you spend time handling does all over, including their udders, from an early age, and especially after they become pregnant. Those udders can be ticklish, and if the udder is very full, even tender, and not conducive to does wanting to have anything, including a kid's mouth, touch them.

Lots of good advice in this thread - like making sure the teats are open. They have a natural, waxy plug in them during pregnancy to keep bacteria out. Sometimes it's hard for a kid to get that plug out. And I second the suggestion to do lots of reading and research. After many years of raising one form of livestock or another, I still refresh my memory by re-reading all my reference books. Planning ahead for what-if's can make it much easier to either prevent them or deal with them quickly.

[mary]

Unless it is below freezing kids don't usually need heat lamps. They do need to have a place they can snuggle up out of the wind and off the cold ground.

I usually give the bottle babies warm milk every few hours the first several days, just because they don't drink much at a time at first. As their consumption increases, I cut back on how often I bottle them. In my opinion a couple of times a day for newborns is not often enough.

But I don't get up and bottle in the night. I bottle newborns right before I go to bed and again first thing in the morning (and throughout the day.)

If it is not too warm where you are for leaving an animal in the vehicle, it is possible to put little babies in a carrier and take them with you the first few days, so you can go out and feed them on your breaks/lunch hour.

It's best if you can milk the dams and feed that to the babies.

Anyone who has kept goats for awhile has lost a few. I know how disheartening it is.

[Deleted]

All critter babies require some colostrum not just for the immunities it provides, colostrum is also packed full of vitamin and minerals. I have had some doe's that their colostrum was so thick it I had to dilute it some so it could flow through the bottle nipples. I have had FF get confused about their new babies for many a reason.
Milk the Doe's and bottle the kids, or put the doe on stand as if milking (you may have to hobble her or hold a back leg) and encourage her babies to nurse, once the kid has consumed its mother's milk it will start to smell like her and she will start to accept it. Doe's normally produce colostrum for a week (some longer) get out there and milk some of that out and save for next kidding season.
My bottle babies go on the whole store bought cows milk after they have had the colostrum. I also add 1 teaspoon of yogurt per 16 oz, 1 tablespoon of buttermilk, and 1 teaspoon of karo syrup
ALL baby critters lack the ability to regulate their temperatures at first, can take up to a week maybe more and without their momma's to help them...