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Post by oxankle on Nov 26, 2016 18:24:24 GMT
I sold my welders when I left OK---and I wish I had them back. One was an old Lincoln copper-wound 220 amp stick welder, the other a small wire welder made by a Lincoln subsidiary whose name I've forgotten---That one wanted only 110 volts but needed a 30-amp circuit.
Wednesday I had a chance to visit a Northern Tool store. There they had a slew of welders. One in particular struck my fancy. A Lincoln wire welder, flux or gas, output 140 amps with all the bells and whistles but no bottle. The thing that struck me is that it runs off a 20 amp circuit---an ordinary household plug on the end of that cord.
Not only that; when I showed some interest the lady peddling the welders showed me a "Klutch", which she said was the identical welder made especially for N. Tool with Chinese parts made to Lincoln's specs and put together in Lincoln's plant. That welder was about $125 less expensive than the red machine.
Two things surprised me. The first was that a welder powered by 110 volts would generate 140 amps welding heat. The second was that the welder operated off a 20 amp circuit. Perhaps a third surprise was that N. Tool could get Lincoln to build them a welder matching their own, in America with Chinese parts.
Would any of you experienced welders comment on the potential usefulness of either welder?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2016 22:13:20 GMT
Slow and intermittent duty use welders for thin metals. Very light 140 amps with a small wire. Even more so for the Northern tool model. They have their place, slow production homeowner use, tack weld here, small repair there, small projects. Might get the job done, IF it doesn't burn up, you know like those $4.99 socket sets....James
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Post by oxankle on Nov 27, 2016 1:22:14 GMT
James; I don't think Lincoln would put out a machine with their color, name and warranty if they expected it to be trash. The one I had before was good for up to 3/16 metal, and .030 and .035 wire. I think these use the same wire, but mine was not rated for 140 amps--don't recall the rating. I welded 1" thick wall square tubing and cattle panels without problems. Probably 3/4 of all the work around the place can be done around 90-100 amps or less. No heavy equipment here any more.
I was hoping someone on the board had used one of these machines.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 15:00:51 GMT
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Post by oxankle on Nov 27, 2016 16:00:10 GMT
James; I think the Lincoln in the link is the same I looked at. I don't think the Klutch is that one I saw. The sales woman told me that the PARTS were made in China, assembled in the Lincoln plant for NT, and supposedly the same as the Lincoln 140. I did not think the Klutch they stocked was an inverter welder. Is the Lincoln an inverter? That would be one way they'd get the extra amps with low input. I note that the two units you linked have the same warranty.
As for power, I do not ever again expect to weld anything heavier than square tubing, and these small welders will do that just fine.
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Post by spacecase0 on Nov 27, 2016 22:22:03 GMT
I have one made in china, it seems to work my friend used it to weld the bracket on his muffler on his truck that it the only time it has been used low duty cycle, took him a while to weld the one inch wide connection point (9 min. weld time, now this was 45 min. to get the duty cycle low enough not to fry it) there is no real way around having actual power available when welding unless you are using some sort of gas system maybe this thing gets around the issues by storing gas ? multiplaz.com/but never looked at it's power requirements |
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Post by hermitjohn on Dec 1, 2016 10:41:30 GMT
If you want good welds on thin material, you really need one capable of using a shielding gas. Honest for most people a TIG attachment on a stick welder probably more useful than a small mig. You will get lot better welds on things like car body panels and the like.
I have a 120V MIG. Right off couldnt even tell you the brand. I know I looked at Lincoln and Hobart and Harbor Freight. It was sold by people that sell welding gasses. This one seemed about same quality as the Lincoln and lot cheaper, but not as cheap as the HF. The HF doesnt even have shielding gas option.
But I only use it for little fiddly stuff. For example I needed an eye hook screw. So I welded a lock washer onto end of a dry wall screw. That sort thing. Hey it took very little time, worked great, and saved me a trip to town for an overpriced eye hook screw. Not something I am going to weld with a big stick welder.
But for most things I use a stick welder. Most things needing welding are not just sheet metal or tiny fiddly bits. More like brackets and adapters and such. And I am not talking bull dozer or super heavy equipment. But seriously you arent going to weld quarter inch steel easily and dependably with a 120V mig.
If you dont want to deal with getting 220V, you might look at something like ZENA welder, can be driven off an engine, even a car engine though you will burn lot gas running it very much at that kind rpm needed. I have one, its not as convenient as a buzz box welder, but you only need like 13 to 14hp engine. 16hp better if you have one. Oh and cheapest ZENA comes with a single v-groove pulley. This doesnt work well, get a double groove pulley, both for the ZENA and the engine. Make sure the pulleys are for same width belt. Otherwise it will slip the belt. Not sure what cheapest ZENA costs now, they are not cheap despite looking like a glorified car alternator. I got mine some years ago fairly cheap as a used demonstrator model. Last time I looked price had went up considerably from what I gave. But its held up and works pretty well, I power mine with what is basically a 13hp clone of a honda engine, though the thing was sold as 14hp. Like say, 16hp engine with little bigger drive pulley probably give little more output. I had it on pickup with a 300-6 and with the engine buzzing it had more output than it does with the 13hp. But it also sucked gas beyond belief running at high rpm necessary for that output. Pretty economical with the 13hp running 3600rpm and can weld most stuff I need to weld. No problem with quarter inch steel, struggles some with half inch steel but can be done. No problem welding half inch if mounted to truck engine.
There are other "alternator" welders, couldnt say how good they are. All are expensive. You can read about various ones on Jeep sites. Lot offroad Jeep people mount one under the hood to use for repairs on the trail.
Oh and ZENA is a DC only welder. So you cant do the trick using 6010 rod to cut, which is very handy if you dont do enough welding to rent tanks for a cutting torch. With a DC, 6010 welds. With AC welder, 6010 cuts.
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Post by beowoulf90 on Dec 1, 2016 12:16:42 GMT
Maybe the lack of gas economy with the 300-6, was the 300-6? My last F250 was an 89 with a 300-6 that got 9 mpg loaded or empty. The truck itself was a beast and hauled just about anything I put in it. But it got 9 mpg if it was empty or if it had 1700 lbs in it, which I had done a few times hauling scrap.
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Post by hermitjohn on Dec 1, 2016 13:27:53 GMT
Maybe the lack of gas economy with the 300-6, was the 300-6? My last F250 was an 89 with a 300-6 that got 9 mpg loaded or empty. The truck itself was a beast and hauled just about anything I put in it. But it got 9 mpg if it was empty or if it had 1700 lbs in it, which I had done a few times hauling scrap. My '84 F250 is 4wd and gets 13mpg hiway which is about as good as any 6000 pound vehicle with gas engine is going to get, old or new. Its because the 300-6 is gas guzzler at higher rpms. Remember it developes max torque at 1800rpm. Thats where its going to get best fuel economy. Frankly any engine speed over 2400 is pointless as far as more power. It just burns lot more gas and makes lot more noise beyond that point. Its frankly a tractor engine, not a race car engine. And to run the dang ZENA at max output, I had it wound up around 3500rpm. Gas guzzling mode in other words. It didnt need more power, be enough power at idle for ZENA with engine that size, it just needed to turn the ZENA that fast considering size of crank pulley. If I messed with jackshafts and such I am sure I probably could get ZENA to give full output with the 300 idling, but it would be a nightmare of a rube goldberg setup under hood. |
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Post by gundog on Dec 1, 2016 23:36:07 GMT
I have a Hobart 140 and use .035 wire with gas. It will and has wielded up to 1/4 inch plate and lays a very nice bead. It also runs off my Honda 2000 watt generator when out and about. I have had mine for about 8 years and have never regretted buying it.
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Post by oxankle on Apr 7, 2019 1:38:56 GMT
Well Fellows, I put my Harbor Freight welder to work yesterday. Welded rebar to a quarter inch bolt on one end, to 1 inch square tubing on the other. Made a set of compression bars to hold the pieces of a raised bed together. The rod goes thru the sides, then a second piece of square tubing goes over the threaded bolt, washers and nut put on and the whole thing tightened.
Once both ends are in place and the bolts tightened the box can be handled as a unit.
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Post by Jolly on Apr 7, 2019 15:56:44 GMT
oxankle, Which HF welder did you get?
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Post by Tim Horton on Feb 11, 2020 6:35:25 GMT
At one time I had a store brand 120 V, 20 Amp flux core machine.. It took a lot of time, and repeated passes, but did any job I needed done.
But then time was my cheapest commodity at that time...
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