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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 17:31:40 GMT
Currently I have a Bandsaw mills on the head.
Well cruising around looking for Ideas for inexpensive bandsaw wheels, someone
was asking about using weight lifting plates as wheels...
If you ever priced wheels you know they are expensive.
So I cruised on over to craigslist and did a search and found a pair of 100 lb Olympic
plates.
I think they will be perfect,19" across and 1 3/4" wide.
Biggest issue is the hole,its 2" and 2" shaft is hard to find, I did locate decent priced
shafting from Mcmaster Car.
Though I got to thinking the actual lifting bar would work as well.
and cost about the price of one shaft.
Like I said sawmills on the brain,think I have gleaned every homebuilt mill video on youtube.
I have a basic plan,though if anyone else has built one I would like to know what you might do different if you built another?
I want to be able to saw 4' diameter logs or stumps.
I like the Acme thread head lift, a few guys had hydraulic feed to move the head back and forth.
One he rode along with the head, I liked that as well.
I sourced a good bit of parts, between McMaster Car and Surplus center, any other decent priced places?
Bit over a thousand for the bells and whistles I want, have the engine already and wish I had 250 in hand right now
could have all the steel for a 20' log bed.
I hope to get rolling on something soon, which reminds me I need to hop over to harbour frieght and get a Bandsaw blade
for my metal bandsaw.
Should have something built by end of summer.
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Post by hermitjohn on Apr 29, 2015 18:27:23 GMT
You mean the wheels that the blade turns on? If so I remember a TMEN article once where they made a bandsaw using couple old car spindles, hubs, wheels, and specifically couple bald tires with no cord or wire showing mounted on the wheels. they left the bald tires (really bald so they look like racing slicks) slightly underinflated so blade stayed centered in middle of tire. Brand car parts from wouldnt matter in actual construction/use, but think they used parts from old air cooled VW, might help if you are searching for the article online. Thinking, might want to use narrow wheels/tires, make design easier and less cumbersome.
Dont know if they helps in your project as this article was about building a regular upright shop bandsaw, but seemed like good cheap design to me. And you would have a large choice of sizes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 19:50:15 GMT
I have seen those style, But by the time I bought hubs and wheels I would have as much into it or pretty close to what the plates cost me.
I think over all the plates will work pretty well, my thought is heavier the machine better it works.
Kind of a dampering effect.
The mass will also help buffer the engine, acting like Flywheels.
Smoothing out things.
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Post by Bear Foot Farm on Apr 30, 2015 12:55:08 GMT
Long ago, in a Galaxy far away , I worked in a sawmill
Our bandsaw would cut up to 3' widths, and the pieces were usually about 9" thick when I got them
The wheels were about 6' in diameter, and the blade was about 14" wide and had 2" teeth with 0.25" wide carbide tips brazed on.
One wheel was 10-12 ft above the floor at it's top and the other was in an 8 ft deep hole in the floor
It had several high volume/ high pressure water jets to cool and lubricate the blade, and a motorized feed and clamp system to hold the boards in position
We changed it every 4 hours, and one guy's job was nothing other than sharpening the blades or replacing teeth for the next change
The primary carriage saw was a "buzzsaw" with a 5' diameter blade that was changed every 8 hours
There were lots of conveyers and hydraulics to move the logs and lumber around
With a saw the size you're talking about, I think you'll be lucky to cut 12" logs with any semblence of speed or precision without the blade flexing or overheating and jamming
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 17:41:53 GMT
That is production sawing lol, I just want a little better then average hobby mill. Really doubt I'll be sawing many 4' logs, wide stuff would be more then likely cross sections. I swear I have watched every youtube video with every home built mill out there. Along with a lot of the commercial hobby mills. Bandsaws,Swing blades,Duel cicular saws,Circular mills. They seem to work pretty well. By no means as well as what your talking but I don't have a few million dollars nor enough trees to warrant all that. I see a lot of trees commercial operations would not bother with just because, its not worth coming for one tree or they are not big enough for them. Still a bit of wood in there though,but I sure cant rip it out on my table saw. I have a couple friends with wood lots and I cringe at all the logs they cut into fire wood. One I did have talked into building a mill,sell the lumber at a premium and buy the cord wood as well as use scraps. He passed but had stated ordering parts. His widows setting on 500 dollars of band wheels right now. Between them and craigslist,and I also have talked to a few tree companies,which showed interest,think I could have all the logs I want. Just need to be able to saw them. If all works out I can always upgrade latter, have to start some where. Most if not all my sawing would be for my woodshop. Where the value added products will come to life. heres one of the better built ones and mine will be similar. www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eqwZb4D9r8 |
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Post by Bear Foot Farm on May 1, 2015 2:33:12 GMT
I've seen a few nice small mills that used a circular blade powered by the PTO on a tractor
I think that would hold up better than a small bandsaw type
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 11:07:47 GMT
Problem there, lets say your live sawing a 10" log, think the blade on my buzz saw is 3/8", you end up with about a boards worth of saw dust.
Thats the reason I think most people prefer a band saw, for the small kerf.
Same problem with the chain saw mills. to much waste for small logs.
Like I said earlier I doubt I will be sawing anything of substantial girth.
At least for a while... but seriously large trees are hard to come by.
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Post by elkhound on May 1, 2015 13:57:17 GMT
there us to be a small circle mill made for farmers that ran on small tractors.it was a a foley bell saw.it was a neat machine.i had a chance at one decades ago and didnt buy it.i still remember their ads in magazines. now you cant find one to buy to save yaself.
my local guys cry and complain if you bring small logs to be sawn.but they get 350 a 1000 to saw.stuff is just getting to pricey.
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Post by elkhound on May 1, 2015 13:59:24 GMT
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Post by sawmilljim on May 1, 2015 14:37:32 GMT
I don't think the weights will work good due to no crown in the wheels . That said I built a high production re saw using space saver spare tires .We had a power feed on it and it was really fast cutting . If I were building one again I would hunt a cheep front wheel drive junker car sitting somewhere and use the drive hub and front axle shaft to drive it and hunt another doughnut spare tire the same size using the back hub as a idler. Just don't pay over $125.00 a ton for it
The saw we built was run with a 20 hp 3ph motor using a home built phase converter Just yesterday I tossed about 50 band saw blades in the scrap pile they just need sharpening and the surface rust took off. If you were closer I would give those blades to you and even show you a poor mans way of sharpening them .
I got rid of the circle saw ,resaw and all logging equipment and am putting my time now into building a hobby body shop for something to do .
After thought those band saws must run the blade at the right feet per minuet and horse power counts if you want some speed . You got to have that blade really tight too . And should it break it can be wild for a short time .
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Post by Bear Foot Farm on May 1, 2015 18:09:02 GMT
Ain't that the truth!
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Post by sawmilljim on May 1, 2015 18:45:02 GMT
Another thing I just though of four inch trees make really bad lumber .All grade lumber comes off the outside cuts . Notice landscape timbers are small logs with the heart wood boxed .Even cross ties have the heart wood boxed . A lot does depend on the species of of the tree and your intended use too .
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 19:16:04 GMT
Can't you get your crown from the Tires? as in Bandsaw Tires.
Most logs I would mill would be between 10"-30".
Lower grade stuff will get marked for a stockade privacy fence.
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Post by sawmilljim on May 1, 2015 23:19:12 GMT
Yes tires work good or mine did .With all steel on a home built mill there is a chance of the teeth getting on the metal and removing the tooth set fast . I had caster and camber adjustments built into mine too . Those log sizes sound better .
I would use the old hand push on the head rig till I got the feed rate down pat . Now if one has lots of goodies it would be easy to use a power feed. Mine feed rate was controlled by a hydraulic powered veritable speed set up . I also had a unscrambler set up to feed the Hydraulic driven belt the cants fell on . We designed it to cut long wood and cut fast it was fast enough we had to slow it down so the stack man could keep up .
When we started building I got a common Woodmiser blade and built around that blade I think they are 13'3'' As I said I wish someone could use that bunch I tossed out .
What you plan to power it with ?
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Post by sawmilljim on May 1, 2015 23:53:00 GMT
Problem there, lets say your live sawing a 10" log, think the blade on my buzz saw is 3/8", you end up with about a boards worth of saw dust. Thats the reason I think most people prefer a band saw, for the small kerf. Same problem with the chain saw mills. to much waste for small logs. Like I said earlier I doubt I will be sawing anything of substantial girth. At least for a while... but seriously large trees are hard to come by. I never put my two cents in on the circle verses band saw . Some of the bigger mills use to break their logs down on the circle mill into cants then re saw into lumber .Now these are prime high dollar walnut cherry ect .Now that said you can take most any circle mill and saw more lumber before dinner that most low dollar band mills can all day . Thing with a little band mill one guy can operate it . Now one guy operating a circle mill is a total killer . I know I have had no show help several times . Each has it's pros and cons a lot depends if you are sawing ties for a living then the one board saved is not worth talking about because if you are boxing the heart on a 13'' log you just an't going to come out at the end of the day worrying about a board . . I do have to say I hate messing with those darn band saws 50 blades is a bunch of money . Of course those carbide teeth for my circle saw weren't cheep either . |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 0:29:58 GMT
15 horse Brigs off a old sears tractor to start, like a bit bigger but its what I have.
Spent part of the day getting the carriage together, again what I have on hand, its thin wall stuff but once its gusseted and braced should do the Job.
Working on coming up with 250 to buy this boat load of steel, it will be everything I need for my log bed and the before mention bracing.
As well as the actual head.
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Post by sawmilljim on May 2, 2015 1:30:43 GMT
Yea I understand using what one has on hand ,but I'm thinking it is going to be tad slow going . It takes a lot of torque with the right SFPM You could use pulleys with belts on them for band wheels too . Some of those older motors had more horse power than stated too where the new ones are over stated . We built our blade guides using cheep bearings from the Auto parts store .We run the blade tight enough it never touched the upper and lower guides unless the blade tried dipping or raised . On mine the most important one was the rear blade bearing as our cants were traveling when they hit the blade .
You planning a two post or four ?
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 1:53:13 GMT
Four post.
I got to figure that engine tops out at 3600 RPM, And I want to run about 1200 maybe 1500 tops.
So I was thinking a 3" pulley on the engine and a 9" on the shaft.
I also want as much throat as I can get.
Think I have that figured as well.
I did think about a rolling log bed but it would be a good bit more work and material.
I plan on making this so the head,engine,wheels,carriage,and bed can be separated for transport.
But for the most part it will have a permanent home in the front field.
I'll build a shed for the head once I get some wood cut.
Just tarp the bed.
If I can get that steel I want, it will be 18 long, 6" C chanel with the angel on top and the center supports I'll devise a way to slip them on. Or maybe bolt. make the log dogs out of 3/4 pipe and half a pipe clamp.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 1:54:14 GMT
Can you explain the SFPM... after all I'm a bit of a novice...
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Post by sawmilljim on May 2, 2015 2:27:40 GMT
Can you explain the SFPM... after all I'm a bit of a novice... Speed the saw blade goes in feet per minute .You need in or about 3,000 SFPM I think if I remember right . Here is you a good calculator .I hope You will need to copy and paste that link. vintagemachinery.org/math/sfpm.aspx |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 2:37:57 GMT
Ok heres what it came up with like I said 3600 rpm, 3 and 9 inch pulleys and 19.5" wheels
Calculated SFPM: 5,443
as far as torque I'm hoping the shear weight of those plates helps, like big flywheels.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 2:45:00 GMT
Thanks for the Link as well,now I'm drooling over machines I can't buy in the classifieds...
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Post by sawmilljim on May 2, 2015 2:57:50 GMT
Isn't that a bit fast ? There is just something that worries me about using weights as band saw wheels .But with any band saw you need really good guards on it because when that blade breaks it is going to get interesting fast . And should one those weights break it is going to be a interesting day at Table Rock . Balance could be a challenge too all belt pulleys are balanced and tires are easy to balance . If a blade breaks in the wood it an't bad but I have seen them get free of a guard too . Think I would look here for wheels or pulleys from surplus center then put belts on them .http://www.linnlumber.com/page17.html
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Post by sawmilljim on May 2, 2015 3:02:55 GMT
Thanks for the Link as well,now I'm drooling over machines I can't buy in the classifieds... Yep I run into that afford thing all the time .My now project is setting up a body shop .I got the sawmills out of my system put one circle mill in the scrap iron along with a nice live log deck . |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 3:10:16 GMT
I am only guessing at speed but most lawn equipment to best of my knowledge max out full throttle at 3600 rpm. thats when you get full HP.
I can Gear it different, though my RPM calculation actual rpm will be 1200 on the wheels.
Its going to be a 1 1/2" blade.
How fast do you think I should run it?
ya I was searching through a old popular science on google for something else and came across a way to balance a wheel by chance.
You need to keep in mind these are solid cast Iron from when people took pride in their work...
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 3:46:53 GMT
I was checking out timberwolf blades site they recommend 4000-5800 sfpm.
So I will gear it for 4,000 and see how that works.
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Post by sawmilljim on May 2, 2015 3:52:54 GMT
Well while I was resting I just spent a bunch on shop supply's . I was thinking around 3,000 SFPM but it seams I was in error according to Timber Wolf's web site .It appears 5,700 SFPM .That link I posted on SFPM is a easy way to get you set up right on the target . A wheel on bearings is easy to balance ,question is will they take the stress ? Those 1.5 blades were just to high of a cost for me so I stayed with the 1.25 blades ,found a place to get them ten at at a time . More fun reading www.suffolkmachinery.com/1-to-2-blades.html |
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Post by sawmilljim on May 2, 2015 3:58:23 GMT
I was checking out timberwolf blades site they recommend 4000-5800 sfpm. So I will gear it for 4,000 and see how that works. After playing around with that resaw we built I found those engineers to be close on to things working out right on their blades sawing good at their designed speed . Only thing I did was run the blade tighter because we hit it with a cant at a good speed . |
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Post by sawmilljim on May 2, 2015 4:10:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2015 13:39:44 GMT
Thanks for the help Tom here is what I did the other day still needs a lot of work but helps me to visualize what I'm going for. Its going to get a good bit of bracing for sure. Its basically from 2 pallets, what was shipped on them not sure? The short pieces ran the length, I cut them and left for some bracing till I get the actual stuff welded on. The Inner upright on one side was in the center so I had to move it and weld.  |
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