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Post by okiemomof3 on Jun 15, 2015 19:44:05 GMT
I am looking into a no till type of gardening and would like to give it a whirl. I have always tilled my garden. I am afraid that hay would add to much weed seed to the garden. I have used straw and these past two years, used wood chips for the pathways and it worked great and the soil underneath looked good. Has anyone here successfully mulched with hay? pros? cons?
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Post by mzgarden on Jun 15, 2015 20:07:08 GMT
Hay still has the seeds, which is one reason it's food instead of bedding. If it were me, I'd stick to straw and avoid adding hay seeds into my garden areas.
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Post by paquebot on Jun 15, 2015 20:09:32 GMT
The potential weed situation depends upon the quality of hay. If first-crop timothy, could be a lot of unwelcome junk in it. Second or third cuttings of just about anything should be no worse than straw. A plus with hay is that there are a lot of nutrients available after it breaks down.
Martin
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Post by okiemomof3 on Jun 15, 2015 20:38:54 GMT
that's what i have heard, that it had more nutrients. I do do the deep litter method with my chickens and in the fall spread the bedding on the garden and till it in, so the straw is broken down a bit before it goes into the garden. I would think that straw itself would take more time to break down over the winter than hay....i have to do some more research  |
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Post by gracielagata on Jun 15, 2015 21:16:02 GMT
Our straw, which is sold as animal bedding, is fully of seeds. It is mostly in the broken parts of the bales it seems like, but I get patches of wheat grass growing all over the garden. I try to pull them before they take heavy root and feed them to the chickens. So straw has less nutrition for a garden compared to hay then? Makes sense I suppose since that is also the case for animals eating it. Oh, and my straw seems to break down fairly decently, but I do till it in, and have no comparison against hay, as that is too expensive to garden with when the horses need to eat it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 21:27:36 GMT
We've mulched with hay, you have to lay it on real thick so if seeds do germinate on the bottom they won't get any light. Seeds in the upper section don't keep enough moisture to sprout. We do occasionally get stuff sprouting, but we get hay for no additional cost, but we'd have to buy straw.
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Post by paquebot on Jun 16, 2015 3:05:26 GMT
Straw is indeed short on nutrients. So much so that farmers often burn it in the fields since it requires more nitrogen to break down than there are of the other two basic nutrients. Hay may have as much as 2% or more nitrogen while oat straw has zero.
As with any organic mulch, many gardeners expect it to remain intact right up to the last possible weed seed has germinated and then get out of the way for harvest. Depth of the mulch means little to many perennial weeds. (Mustard and sedge will come up through 6" of wood chips.) Annuals often need just a peek of light and they will emerge. I recently had so much straw on one of my garlic beds to where I could not hoe anything. Lambs quarters and ragweed appeared there for the first time ever and there was little that I could do until they were big enough to be pulled. No such problem in the bed where only shredded leaves were used. Any weed which appeared was easily controlled with the hoe.
Martin
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 3:24:47 GMT
Paper under the hay/straw helps with reducing light filtration.
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Post by willowgirl on Jun 16, 2015 3:47:00 GMT
I usually have a few bales that get ruined over the winter, and use it for mulch. Yes, some seeds will sprout, but if you lay it on thick, you can flip it over with a pitchfork to smother whatever has sprouted in it. Rinse, later, repeat. Leaves make a really nice mulch, and if they're laid on thick, they're wet and heavy enough that very little will manage to push up through them. My MIL's flower beds have huge trees all around, and I don't rake them out in the fall. I let the leaves serve as a protective covering over the perennials in the winter, and in spring, I rake them all into the bare spots where I'll put annuals late. |
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Post by gracielagata on Jun 16, 2015 13:20:14 GMT
Interesting! I am sure the fact that my straw isn't as thick as it could be does create part of my problem with sprouting. And I will remember the trick to put paper under it next year! I wish I had leaves I could use in the garden, sadly all we have is pine.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 14:23:25 GMT
Blueberries love pine mulch.
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Post by freelove on Jun 16, 2015 14:51:50 GMT
I use hay and do have lots of weeds sprout, but one year I bought some straw to use thinking there wouldn't be a problem with weeds. That straw was full of garlic mustard seeds and I had to battle the gm for years.
Putting newspaper or better yet cardboard under the hay really helps.
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Post by mogal on Jun 23, 2015 21:52:23 GMT
I have room enough in the yard to let unused round bales weather at least a year before I unroll the bales for mulch. The hay is cut on shares with a neighbor and I ask for more than I know I'll need just to be sure I don't run out. I ask him to set the bales on the flat side so that rainwater/snowmelt can enter the bales more easily and allow the composting process to start. While I do have some weeds show up, it's easy to lay more on or flip a sprouted section as someone mentioned earlier.
Also use newspaper or flattened kraft feed sacks under the mulch. I've had problems with wheat grass when I've used wheat straw too.
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mary
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Post by mary on Jun 25, 2015 0:58:27 GMT
Two potential problems with hay. First is the weeds/grass that will grow from it, and second is the possibility that the hay field was sprayed with something that will keep your garden plants from growing.
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Post by ceresone on Jun 26, 2015 12:43:17 GMT
Ruth Stout used Hay--Said it had more nutrition than manure, because the cow had used nutrients out!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2015 15:13:14 GMT
Partly true, but the manure is denser.
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Post by bowdonkey on Jun 26, 2015 15:59:37 GMT
Ruth Stout used Hay--Said it had more nutrition than manure, because the cow had used nutrients out! On a different board I was told you really didn't have to run the hay through a cow first. And he was right. |
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Post by paquebot on Jun 26, 2015 22:21:46 GMT
Alfalfa hay NPK: 2.45-0.5-2.10
Cow manure NPK: 0.6-0.2-0.5
Big difference in what goes in and what comes out.
Martin
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Post by wally on Jun 28, 2015 3:45:51 GMT
Martin, I gotta ask now. Could I use alfalfa as a "cover crop" over winter then turn over in the spring, then use alfalfa as mulch for next years garden ? If it makes a difference, I garden in 12 inch deep raised beds.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 17:06:17 GMT
We use spent hay and it's fabulous.
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Post by paquebot on Jun 29, 2015 22:25:50 GMT
Martin, I gotta ask now. Could I use alfalfa as a "cover crop" over winter then turn over in the spring, then use alfalfa as mulch for next years garden ? If it makes a difference, I garden in 12 inch deep raised beds. Alfalfa isn't used as an annual cover crop very often. It is best as a bi-annual. That is, letting it grow for a full season. Also, it's NPK value would depend upon what's already in the soil since it can't make something that isn't there. If you're going with something in the hay line, use a fast-growing clover such as Alsike, Crimson, or Ladino. Martin |
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Post by wally on Jun 29, 2015 23:25:10 GMT
Martin, thanks.
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Post by paquebot on Jun 30, 2015 2:16:03 GMT
Wally, one has to remember that farmers often have their soil tested for whatever crop they grow and add fertilizer according to the crop's needs. Accepted NPK values of hay and many other crops is an average. If soil conditions are ideal, NPK value may be more. If soil is deficient, so will the hay.
Martin
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