San Marzano Paste Tomatoes...

[Deleted]

This year I decided to plant several varieties of paste tomatoes in an effort to determine which ones not only do well in this southern climate, but also which produce and taste better. I planted four varieties in total.  I acquired seeds from Martin for Paquebot and Middlefield Amish (Thank you! Martin), had some Amish paste left over from the previous year and decided to give the San Marzanos a whirl based on the recommendations of others.

All of the varieties are doing better than I could have expected with the way that the weather has been here (hot...hot...hot..., humid, windy and with little to no rain).  The San Marzanos are actually doing quite well.  The plants are more than 6' tall with lots of tomatoes forming.  I picked upwards of 60 to 70 of them the other day and there is easily two to three times as many growing on only nine plants.  The problem is that they are all sooooooo small.   They are barely larger than what one would normally consider to be a "grape" or "cherry" tomato. 

I have seen where some people advertise their San Marzanos reaching five to six ounces in weight and I have seen others say that true San Marzanos do not get that large, yadda, yadda, back and forth.  The package from which the San Marzano seeds came states that they should produce 2 oz. fruits.  The tomatoes that I am getting are ranging from 1/4 to 1/3 of an ounce.  They taste great, but they are tiny. 

So my question is are my San Marzanos actually normal in size, did the seed company possible screw something up, am I doing something wrong?  Does anyone have any experience with this variety? 

Conversely, I have several Amish Paste tomatoes that are huge.  I would not be surprised if they weigh in at or around 10+ ounces.

I have actually given some thought to pulling the San Marzanos and purchasing some type of paste tomato to replace them, simply to be able to make the amount of sauce that I had planned on.  Not sure about that yet.

Thanks for any input.

[paquebot]

When one says that they are growing San Marzano, it's almost like someone saying that they drive a Ford. Car, pickup, what? There are at least 14 different San Marzanos. You may have a San Marzano but not the same that is on the packet. You more than likely have San Marzano Nano or San Marzano Mini from the size reported. San Marzano Redorta appears to be the standard or best of the lot and I'm growing it again this year mainly to satisfy anticipated SSE requests. A friend grew something last year that was supposed to be a San Marzano Redorta. It was basically "red cardboard". She scrapped it as it didn't belong under any San Marzano name.

I'll add that if your Middlefield Amish Paste are only half as prolific as when grown here, you're going to be up to your ears with paste tomatoes.  Not as juicy as Paquebot Roma or Amish Paste but combine the 3 and you won't need anything else.  Feed them well and they will feed you well.

Martin

[Deleted]

I just checked the package again and all it says is "San Marzano Tomato" and nothing else. It does claim that it should produce 2 oz. fruits, but that has not even come close to being a reality.

What do you think Martin???

With the area that I live in, does it make any sense to buy some paste tomato plants of whatever variety I can get a hold of from the usual local nurseries and get a decent crop by the end of October. That should be enough time, should it not? 

IIRC, I planted 27 paste tomato plants with the San Marzanos being fully 1/3 of that.  Getting only grape size tomatoes from those plants is not going to produce much sauce.

The Middlefield Amish are doing well, but they are barely four feet tall.  There are fruits on the plants but they seem to be the less productive variety at this moment in time.

The Paquebots are five feet tall and have a boatload of decent sized fruits that are just starting to turn color.

The Amish are producing some quite large fruits that are just starting to turn, but they are not producing the numbers like the Paquebots. 

I just have a feeling that if I do not replace the San Marzanos I am not going to even come close to the desired amount of sauce to put up.

[Deleted]

I swear by the San Marzano 'Redortas' I got from Martin. I was pleasantly surprised by their large, chunky size last year. I'm growing 10 this year. They're much bigger than any other paste toms I've grown. And robust flavor too.

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2015 4:24:26 GMT @karlintn said:

I swear by the San Marzano 'Redortas' I got from Martin. I was pleasantly surprised by their large, chunky size last year. I'm growing 10 this year. They're much bigger than any other paste toms I've grown. And robust flavor too.

Well,

I screwed up!!!

I got the Middlefield Amish and Paquebots from Martin, but I bought the San Marzanos locally.

My bad!!!  That will never happen again!!!  I hope!!!

[Deleted]

Bump!!!

I think paquebot may have missed my question of him in that post.

"What do you think Martin???

With the area that I live in, does it make any sense to buy some paste tomato plants of whatever variety I can get a hold of from the usual local nurseries and get a decent crop by the end of October. That should be enough time, should it not?"

[paquebot]

I didn't miss it, looked at your zone and didn't want to give you false hope. Doesn't do much good to have nice lush plants if the temperatures are too hot for the blossoms to pollinate themselves. You already should know the normal time for planting tomatoes in your area. If you can find a local garden center that still has plants, put them on the spot and ask them if you could expect to get anything off them. I'd be curious as to their answer.

Martin

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2015 19:58:35 GMT paquebot said:

I didn't miss it, looked at your zone and didn't want to give you false hope. Doesn't do much good to have nice lush plants if the temperatures are too hot for the blossoms to pollinate themselves. You already should know the normal time for planting tomatoes in your area. If you can find a local garden center that still has plants, put them on the spot and ask them if you could expect to get anything off them. I'd be curious as to their answer.

Martin

Actually, I do not think that I ever knew it could be too hot for the blossoms to pollinate themselves.

I actually saw some Roma paste at one of the nurseries the other day.  Asking them though would be futile.  They not only are trying to sell me something, they never struck me as knowing what they are talking about for the most part. 

I will ask if you want to be amused.  I could even record their response.  That would probably make for an even funnier post.

I do have some large pots that had Borage in them that I could use for new tomato plants, I think.  What is the smallest pot that a tomato plant could be planted in and still expect it to be healthy and productive?

[paquebot]

Tomato pollen melts at around 80ºF. There are a few which can handle perhaps 85º or so with Creole being the most noted. That 80º is air temperature, not just sunshine hitting it so shade wouldn't help much. Even up here there may be periods of no fruiting in July and August due to that reason.

For a determinate variety, wouldn't go with less than 7 gallons. For indeterminate, need 10 gallons. Anything smaller for either means a lot less production.

Martin

[Deleted]

I have some pots that are quite large, some are at least 18" across and the larger ones are about 24" across. Not sure of the gallon size of either. I will have to measure them tomorrow and do the math. And then go to one of the local nurseries and see what they have available.

As far as temps go Martin the average high for this past month was a little more than 93*F and the tomatoes are still forming fruits as best as I can tell.  Especially the miniature San Marzanos that I am currently growing and looking at replacing.  The average high for May was 84.5*F.  All of the tomato plants were put into the ground the first week of May.  I am not trying to debunk you or anything.  I am just telling you what I have recorded and experienced.

[paquebot]

This is only the first of July. You may be looking at fruit which began forming 2 or 3 weeks ago. Average high isn't what will do them in, it's the average for the whole 24 hours that the pollen is there. Generally there's a 12 to 18 hour window for best pollination. If pollen is produced during the cooler nighttime hours, better chance of success then if during a hot daytime. If nights also in the 80s, chance of pollination goes way down.

Under even the worse conditions, some pollination may occur but few seeds result. Fewer seeds mean that there is no need for a large tomato to store them in and you end up with a smaller one. You say that Middlefield Amish Paste is just so-so for production? That one is noted for covering the ground several inches thick with dropped fruit. If it isn't from lack of care on your part, might you think that perhaps a smaller percentage of blossoms are being pollinated?

Martin

[Skandi]

*sticking oar in, Kinda hate to say anything with the experts in the thread. but I was under the impression that if you have huge plants and not many fruits then you're giving them too much nitrogen.
You alsi say that it's not rained. could you be getting small tomatoes simply due to a lack of water?

[ceresone]

My mainstay in Paste tomatoes will always be Opalaka

[willowgirl]

I have some pots that are quite large, some are at least 18" across and the larger ones are about 24" across. Not sure of the gallon size of either. I will have to measure them tomorrow and do the math.

I'd think that would be big enough. My ex and I harvested 80 tomatoes a few years back from a plant we grew in a pot on his patio. I'm guessing it was about 20" across. I'm not sure of the variety, but think it may have been a Rutgers.

[willowgirl]

A P.S. to add that I have noticed the variability in San Mars, too. I grew a strain a few years back that was one of the best paste tomatoes I've had. Bought some fresh seed last year, but the results were only "Meh."

[paquebot]

As Willowgirl said, there's a San Marzano going around that is only "Meh". Whatever that is can't be good! Not saying who is to blame but I know that what my friend grew came from Tomatofest which usually is somewhat reliable. Bad thing is that there are some who would not know that there are so many different varieties and they pass it along thinking that what they have is what it is supposed to be. Then someone grows it out on contract to a company like Fedco and it becomes more messed up. Gardener buys a packet of San Marzano seeds and ends up with what I call "red cardboard" and wonder why.

Martin