Microsoft Services Agreement

[bluemingidiot]

"If you do not agree, you can choose to discontinue using the products and services, and close your Microsoft account before September 15, 2016."

I don't know what Microsoft accounts I have.  I can't remember some things I did yesterday.  How do I find out what accounts I have opened at some point in the past? 

[spacecase0]

are they asking for your first born child now ?

I have read a few past agreements they have had,
just horrible what they want you to agree to
if you have a home edition of windows, they say (and you agree) that they own anything that you create on the computer,
that email to your lover, they own it,
the art you made and printed out, they own it,
the business you made on your home computer, they own it.
now I have never seen them take anyone up on the agreement, but it was still in the agreement
makes me want to read the new versions of the agreement and see if all that is still in there

[hermitjohn]

This sounds like some terms of service for a product, but of what, you dont say. I noticed playing with win10, they go out of their way to herd you into signing up for a Microsoft account as part of an automatic log in. Then do hard sell to get you to use their cloud apps. They then want to use this to track you and sell you stuff. You dont have to do this, can sign in with a local (on your computer only) defaultuser account. You can even set it where you dont need to type in password. Again this is not an easy or obvious way, they seriously want your information and want you to believe you need an official Microsoft account to use their system. Sort of a sleazy gotcha kind way doing buisiness.

So I assume they mean the Microsoft account you established with some version of their operating system. Or I suppose if you had a Hotmail or MSN email account??? There have probably been other attempts to get you to sign up for something or other over the years.

Microsoft isnt unique in doing this, they just have a really unfriendly way to trying to impose things from above.

Believe me nobody with a 500 page Terms of Service agreement, has your best interests at heart.  It was written by tag team of lawyers with intent of stripping you of all your rights you that they can possibly legally get away with.  Much of this wouldnt hold up in court, but they will give it that old college try, figuring darn few would ever take it to court.

[bluemingidiot]

Aug 10, 2016 14:54:59 GMT bluemingidiot said:

I have no idea what the product is. My query is, How do I find what it is so I can close it?

[hermitjohn]

YOu are still not telling us what this is. Email? Paper letter from M$ or their lawyers? What??? Sounds like some silly bit of some terms of service you copied, that is in effect meaningless. Unless you really po'd some M$ muckymuck and they are trying to legally apply pressure. If its an email, set your email software or web email account to reveal the entire source. I get name brand phishing junk all the time but if you check closely its usually like "[e-mail]" In otherwords fake just trying to get you to click on something and maybe give out private information. Amazing how much of this scamming goes on. Never ever reply directly to such or click on anything. You get such an email, dont click on anything, but independently log into your account on the website named. If its real, there will be communication in your account there.

If real would assume it involves some M$ account you foolishly signed up for just so you could sign in and use some new computer. As I say, they make it sound like you HAVE to do this though you dont. More work, but you can just establish a local user account. Once you signed up, you probably forgot all about it. Try using one of those cloud apps M$ tries to get you to use and you will find out quick if you have a M$ account. If you have one, you are in like flynn, if not it will ask you to create one. I think maybe you even need such an account to use Cortana if you have that. Cortana is just a M$ spy app, so doesnt cost anything to try to use it. And you dont need a microphone to use it, the search box in task bar is Cortana, so you can just type in something there. Cortana is tied to BING and BING, like Google, keeps track of your searches if you are signed in with an account. Maybe records your computer's serial number if you dont. There are always workarounds for the data collectors.

If you inadvertantly signed up for such M$ account, it has been following you around like a puppy dog, collecting your data. Win10 tries to collect your data whether you have an M$ account or not. Took me lot effort to try and block win10 phoning home and I still dont know if I have it all plugged. M$ has more servers than one can imagine and sure new ones every day. Win10 and updated win7/8 are darn chatty with these servers. Damn swiss cheese of an operating system.

[bluemingidiot]

""You’re receiving this email because we are updating the Microsoft Services Agreement, which applies to one or more Microsoft products or services you use. We’re making these updates to clarify our terms and ensure that they remain transparent for you, as well as to cover additional Microsoft products, services and features.


The Microsoft Services Agreement is an agreement between you and Microsoft (or one of its affiliates) that governs your use of Microsoft consumer online products and services.




Here are some of the most notable changes to the Microsoft Services Agreement:



•

Coverage for additional services (like GroupMe and Group Messaging) and new functionality and features for covered services (like Skype, Bing and our Rewards program)


•

Clarifications that your work or school account is covered by different terms


•

Notice that Xbox now requires that you sign in at least every 5 years to keep your gamertag active


•

Explanation of data storage limits for OneDrive and factors that could affect syncing and uploading to OneDrive services





You can read the entire Microsoft Services Agreement here. You can also learn more about these updates on our FAQ page here. The updates to the Microsoft Services Agreement will take effect on Septe‍mber 15, 20‍16. If you continue to use our products and services on or after Septem‍ber 15, 20‍16, you are agreeing to the updated Microsoft Services Agreement.


We are also updating the Microsoft Privacy Statement. These updates are described on our FAQ page here, and are effective as of August 2, 2016.


If you do not agree, you can choose to discontinue using the products and services, and close your Microsoft account before these terms become effective. If you are a parent or guardian, you are responsible for your child’s or teenager’s use of Microsoft products and services, including purchases.


Thank you for using Microsoft products and services."

My question is how do I find out what product or services I am using?

[hermitjohn]

YOU are using a Microsoft Operating System and you signed up for an account to automatically log you into your computer and also use the cloud apps mentioned. They make this as confusing as possible to get people to do it. And make it as hard as possible to create a local users account to sign on locally instead of a web based M$ account.

www.howtogeek.com/227763/how-to-completely-delete-your-microsoft-account/

This link should explain things far better than I can.

[bluemingidiot]

You're right, I'm confused.

Forgive me Father Bill, I know not what I do.

Thank you John

[hermitjohn]

You might also be interested in this Destroy Windows Spying script that uses windows own firewall and hosts file to block your operating system from phoning home: dws.wzor.net/

Its not the clearest on how to run it, but it does work and allows you to reverse settings though if you delete any of the cloud apps using it, they cant be brought back unless you set a restore point before using this script. There are options to set restore point and all other stuff. do restore point first, then you can experiment if necessary.

Here is an absolutely amazing program Winaero Tweaker that gives you back lot of options removed from recent windows systems: winaero.com/comment.php?comment.news.1836 Be careful what links you click on this page, bunch junk links for some online "fix windows errors" carp. YOu want actual download link of Winaero Tweaker software at winaero.com/request.php?1796. At the bottom of the description where it says "Download Winaero Tweaker". Why the need for the confusing junk links on site intended to help people is beyond me. But everybody is chasing last dollar and suppose they figure they need to support the website someway.

[Deleted]

Aug 10, 2016 16:08:52 GMT hermitjohn said:

I noticed playing with win10, they go out of their way to herd you into signing up for a Microsoft account as part of an automatic log in. 

But here's the thing: unless you sign up for a MS account and Outlook.com, you can't use email like you used to be able to. I use mailing lists as part of my various admin involvement with local organisations. Under Windows 10, you can still receive and send ordinary emails, but you can't create mailing lists or folders to store your email in folders like you used to be able to under Windows 7. This is a major bugbear with me and many others who need mailing lists for their activities. So unless you do as Hermitjohn does and play around with other operating systems, you're pretty much forced to use what you're given. Some of us don't have time to learn a new system as we still need to keep operating day to day. Rock and Hard Place scenario, really.

Having said that, if you're prepared to go through all your settings and change them so as little info as possible gets through to MS, and only use their basic apps and not all the fancy add-on's, you can reduce the risk. 

Thanks hermitjohn for keeping us informed of your tinkerings.  

[hermitjohn]

Aug 10, 2016 21:18:55 GMT @kiwifarmgal said:

Aug 10, 2016 16:08:52 GMT hermitjohn said:

I noticed playing with win10, they go out of their way to herd you into signing up for a Microsoft account as part of an automatic log in. 

But here's the thing: unless you sign up for a MS account and Outlook.com, you can't use email like you used to be able to. I use mailing lists as part of my various admin involvement with local organisations. Under Windows 10, you can still receive and send ordinary emails, but you can't create mailing lists or folders to store your email in folders like you used to be able to under Windows 7. This is a major bugbear with me and many others who need mailing lists for their activities. So unless you do as Hermitjohn does and play around with other operating systems, you're pretty much forced to use what you're given. Some of us don't have time to learn a new system as we still need to keep operating day to day. Rock and Hard Place scenario, really.

Having said that, if you're prepared to go through all your settings and change them so as little info as possible gets through to MS, and only use their basic apps and not all the fancy add-on's, you can reduce the risk. 

Thanks hermitjohn for keeping us informed of your tinkerings.  

I've never used Outlook or Outlook Express in my life and IE only when I once had a bank that wouldnt let me access my account with anything but IE.  Even back in dark days when I used win95 and win98 on daily basis, I use Opera or Netscape browser and dang cant remember what email client I used, that was before Thunderbird.  Some third party email app, Pegasus?  Then there was some email client with a Caribbean sounding name.  It was discontinued but last version still offered free for long time, I liked it.  Probably still have copy burned to cdr or floppy someplace....

Might look at Thunderbird.  support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-create-and-use-mailing-lists-thunderbird   I really have never done mailing lists so no idea if it would work for your needs.  I do know that even if you use windows, you dont have to use Microsoft apps.  There are always third party apps that work as well or better.  And without being controlled by M$.  Giving any one company total control is never a good idea.

I use Firefox browser and Thunderbird email client on Puppy Linux.  Work same way whether on windows or linux.

[hermitjohn]

Calypso, that was name of that email client. Discontinued. Reincarnated as Courier by another company and discontinued again in like 2008. I used Calypso in win98. Switched to linux before XP so never used Courier.

EDIT: Huh, I found copy of last version of Calypso that was offered for free when company that created it, abandoned it.  Found it on German site so hoping its not some German language version, my German is pretty rusty to navigate.   No free version of Courier ever offered that I can find.  Calypso was to work up to win2000, so guessing it might work on win10 in XP compatibility mode.  Be interesting to see what options it offered if I can get it to run.  It was way ahead of its time, very nice software.  I just lost track of its progress once I moved to linux.  I still have XP partition so could try it on XP if it wont run on win10.  Or could try running it with WINE....  Funny some older windows software that wont run on windows anymore will run on linux using WINE....

[jangirl]

Wish I was savvy enough to understand all of this. Just bought an HP laptop and cannot get my email to load and be useable on it. I'm so hoping my old desktop will hang in there until I can figure it out. Waaaa. I so hate Win10! Just hate it but know I have to come up to the surface and run with the real world eventually. Have a call in to one of the guys who worked for our old phone company that was the IP for us, now owned by Century Link and so hard to get help from them. Hubby isn't that savvy either, but I let him load the software that came with the darn thing and try to get the email program to load and work. He isn't the slightest bit familiar with 10 either.

[Deleted]

Aug 10, 2016 22:25:10 GMT hermitjohn said:

Aug 10, 2016 21:18:55 GMT @kiwifarmgal said:

But here's the thing: unless you sign up for a MS account and Outlook.com, you can't use email like you used to be able to. I use mailing lists as part of my various admin involvement with local organisations. Under Windows 10, you can still receive and send ordinary emails, but you can't create mailing lists or folders to store your email in folders like you used to be able to under Windows 7. This is a major bugbear with me and many others who need mailing lists for their activities. So unless you do as Hermitjohn does and play around with other operating systems, you're pretty much forced to use what you're given. Some of us don't have time to learn a new system as we still need to keep operating day to day. Rock and Hard Place scenario, really.

Having said that, if you're prepared to go through all your settings and change them so as little info as possible gets through to MS, and only use their basic apps and not all the fancy add-on's, you can reduce the risk. 

Thanks hermitjohn for keeping us informed of your tinkerings.  

Some third party email app, Pegasus? 

Might look at Thunderbird.  support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-create-and-use-mailing-lists-thunderbird   I really have never done mailing lists so no idea if it would work for your needs.  I do know that even if you use windows, you dont have to use Microsoft apps.  There are always third party apps that work as well or better.  And without being controlled by M$.  Giving any one company total control is never a good idea.

I use Firefox browser and Thunderbird email client on Puppy Linux.  Work same way whether on windows or linux.

Oh my goodness, I actually REMEMBER Pegasus!!! That's going back a while...

Thanks for the info on Thunderbird. When I come up for air, I'll take a look. And yes, I agree - putting all one's eggs (or info) in one basket isn't ideal.

[hermitjohn]

Aug 11, 2016 0:41:51 GMT jangirl said:

Wish I was savvy enough to understand all of this. Just bought an HP laptop and cannot get my email to load and be useable on it. I'm so hoping my old desktop will hang in there until I can figure it out. Waaaa. I so hate Win10! Just hate it but know I have to come up to the surface and run with the real world eventually. Have a call in to one of the guys who worked for our old phone company that was the IP for us, now owned by Century Link and so hard to get help from them. Hubby isn't that savvy either, but I let him load the software that came with the darn thing and try to get the email program to load and work. He isn't the slightest bit familiar with 10 either.

Seriously there are other modern third party email clients for windows.  I use Thunderbird and it works fine, there are others of course.  cubiq.org/the-best-email-clients-for-windows-2016  I will put in good word for Claws that is mentioned, I have used it on linux and this article says its available for windows.  I personally like Thunderbird interface better though.  Few years back Thunderbird would get crashy once couple years email was collected, but they solved that, very stable anymore.  I'd forgotten all about The Bat.  I had tried demo of it long long time ago,  very nice,  though think it was always software you had to pay for to use long term.  I always went for the freeware or open source alternative unless the pay software was just obviously superior.  Usually can find a good freeware program, though anymore watch out for some unscrupulous freeware providers that try to sneak in junkware along with the software you want during installation.  Believe it or not Pegasus is still around and modernized.  Been so long ago since I used it, really cant offer an opinion on modern version.  Would need to try it.

Depending what you want to do with it, win10 can be tamed, I have another thread  where I mention some of things I did to get it to run ok on a low spec old laptop with only 2gb ram.  You can strip and lock it down to where its lot more like XP than trying to float on a cloud, though its got so many back doors built into it, not sure its ever completely trustworthy if you care about privacy.  Wasnt technically difficult to tame it, though took me while to find how to do it with third party scripts and third party software and hidden command prompt only settings.  Really helps it a lot to use third party command prompt script during installation to strip out the cloud stuff.  Runs lot faster on low spec machine done that way rather than trying to turn off and block stuff after the fact.  M$ really really wants people to buy into this cloud stuff and 'windows as a service' rather than as a static operating system.  Its not unlike Google or Apple or other "data collecting for profit" based models.  Except M$ has really nasty big brother attitude of forcing it down people's collective throats rather than gently selling it.  When somebody does that, makes me think its not in my best interests.  Like some hard sell used car salesman.

[hermitjohn]

Pegasus email client still exists, they even still offer downloads of legacy 16bit versions for DOS and win3.1!!! Though their current windows 32bit version is said to work for XP/Vista and seems to work ok in win7 though extensive testing hasnt been done.... LOL And yes there was small update this year. Anyway its free download. Have to try it. Or heck try running the DOS version in DOSbox if nothing else... www.pmail.com/index.htm

[hermitjohn]

Ok, downloaded latest Pegasus 4.72 and it installs and runs ok on win10. I didnt have my email settings handy to set it up to see how it does retrieving mail. Whats more interesting is that it will run ok on linux using WINE. Some on Pegasus forum have done this. You have to turn off the IE html viewer in WINE, it then uses its older independent BEAR html viewer.

I am tempted to try the old DOS version in DOSbox, but imagine it cant deal with modern IMAP or even secure POP3 settings. It was a simpler time.

[hermitjohn]

Ok, CAlypso will install and run in win10 but doesnt support modern SSL connection. Too bad.

Pegasus works great, it sent and received a message using secure connection on alternate ports. I noticed it also support mailing lists to some extent.

Now it does have one oddity, when you close it, not all the screen goes away immediately. You open another program and that wipes it away. Annoying and I could go onto Pegasus forum and do search as I am sure I am not only person with this little annoyance. Have to live with it long term to know of any other quirks or annoyances I suppose.