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Post by Skandi on Jun 21, 2017 13:57:21 GMT
OK I've been trying to find organic chicken food for ages, I can buy a premixed feed no problems but it is very expensive, I can also buy conventional concentrated feed and mix that with grains (which is what I do) but I cannot find a concentrated organic feed I have however found a concentrated organic DUCK feed (it's mainly for pigs but it is also suitable for ducks) Obviously this doesn't have the amount of calcium that layers pellets or concentrate has.
Can I feed my layers this and expect them to make it up with the shell they always have?
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Post by Use Less on Jun 21, 2017 14:12:46 GMT
I'd say it's a maybe. I know that some commercial chicken feed is very bad for ducks and ducklings, but chickens get on OK with less fuss. I would certainly give them back the shells of eggs you eat, and buy them some oyster shell bits. Keep that under cover, since it will dissolve if it sits in water.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 15:29:24 GMT
I'd go ahead and use the duck chow, but if it's awful spendy, I'd probably give them every opportunity to forage as much as possible. As for calcium, we use eggshells, and stopped buying oyster shell years ago. We also feed excess milk from our goats. In order to make sure they don't confuse the used egg shells for intact, whole eggs, we heat the shells in the oven until the temperature hits 200*. We then turn the oven off, leave the shells in there until they cool, and crush them up. Then we just mix them in with their regular feed. Good shells all year long.  |
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Post by gracielagata on Jun 22, 2017 5:01:09 GMT
@pony, How long does it take you to oven heat the shells? Usually when I use eggs, I toss the shells in a corelle bowl and microwave them for 30 seconds. Then again if they seem not quite dry enough. Then drop them in an old yogurt container, crush them, and they stay in the cabinet until full. Then out to the chickens.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2017 16:47:46 GMT
@pony , How long does it take you to oven heat the shells? Usually when I use eggs, I toss the shells in a corelle bowl and microwave them for 30 seconds. Then again if they seem not quite dry enough. Then drop them in an old yogurt container, crush them, and they stay in the cabinet until full. Then out to the chickens. I don't really know. About a half hour, 45 minutes? Never bothered to time it. We keep ours in a plastic ziplock or any bag that's floating around the kitchen. |
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Post by Skandi on Jun 22, 2017 22:09:03 GMT
I'd say it's a maybe. I know that some commercial chicken feed is very bad for ducks and ducklings, but chickens get on OK with less fuss. I would certainly give them back the shells of eggs you eat, and buy them some oyster shell bits. Keep that under cover, since it will dissolve if it sits in water. I believe that that is only so because in the US chick feed can be medicated, that isn't legal here. They always have oystershells (well it's not really oystershells, it's all the small shells and worm casts that come from cleaning musles, but it is still calcium after all), giving egg shells back is illegal here. I've got ducklings due in about 10 days, so I think I'll give the chickens a go on it at the same time, having scrutinised the lable there isn't much difference in composition, it has some more pig oriantated addatives like lysine but that shouldn't bother them. using organic duck/pig food mixed with local grains will cost the same as buying conventional layers pellets, so if it works it will be great. |
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Post by gracielagata on Jun 23, 2017 22:04:26 GMT
I'd say it's a maybe. I know that some commercial chicken feed is very bad for ducks and ducklings, but chickens get on OK with less fuss. I would certainly give them back the shells of eggs you eat, and buy them some oyster shell bits. Keep that under cover, since it will dissolve if it sits in water. I believe that that is only so because in the US chick feed can be medicated, that isn't legal here. They always have oystershells (well it's not really oystershells, it's all the small shells and worm casts that come from cleaning musles, but it is still calcium after all), giving egg shells back is illegal here. I've got ducklings due in about 10 days, so I think I'll give the chickens a go on it at the same time, having scrutinised the lable there isn't much difference in composition, it has some more pig oriantated addatives like lysine but that shouldn't bother them. using organic duck/pig food mixed with local grains will cost the same as buying conventional layers pellets, so if it works it will be great. How would they know you do it at home? |
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Post by Skandi on Jun 24, 2017 15:56:58 GMT
I believe that that is only so because in the US chick feed can be medicated, that isn't legal here. They always have oystershells (well it's not really oystershells, it's all the small shells and worm casts that come from cleaning musles, but it is still calcium after all), giving egg shells back is illegal here. I've got ducklings due in about 10 days, so I think I'll give the chickens a go on it at the same time, having scrutinised the lable there isn't much difference in composition, it has some more pig oriantated addatives like lysine but that shouldn't bother them. using organic duck/pig food mixed with local grains will cost the same as buying conventional layers pellets, so if it works it will be great. How would they know you do it at home? I sell a small amount of eggs and the fine for being caught and being banned from having poultry is just not worth risking, considering a bag of shells costs around $30 and lasts us two years. |
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Post by gracielagata on Jun 24, 2017 19:33:17 GMT
How would they know you do it at home? I sell a small amount of eggs and the fine for being caught and being banned from having poultry is just not worth risking, considering a bag of shells costs around $30 and lasts us two years. I was thinking that you likely sell the eggs and therefore have to be more careful. Annoying though that you can't use a perfectly functional item to give calcium back. Grind them up for the tomatoes then if that isn't illegal.  Are you regulated on what you can feed them? Are you allowed to give them meat? Specifically chicken meat, for instance, since I know this skeeves out a few people out there. I keep a chicken food trash bowl in the fridge, and if chicken bones or whatnot end up in there, then to the chickens they go. THough rarely do they get chicken, as usually I throw the bones into a big freezer bag to make canned broth. |
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Post by Skandi on Jun 24, 2017 20:10:59 GMT
I sell a small amount of eggs and the fine for being caught and being banned from having poultry is just not worth risking, considering a bag of shells costs around $30 and lasts us two years. I was thinking that you likely sell the eggs and therefore have to be more careful. Annoying though that you can't use a perfectly functional item to give calcium back. Grind them up for the tomatoes then if that isn't illegal. Are you regulated on what you can feed them? Are you allowed to give them meat? Specifically chicken meat, for instance, since I know this skeeves out a few people out there. I keep a chicken food trash bowl in the fridge, and if chicken bones or whatnot end up in there, then to the chickens they go. THough rarely do they get chicken, as usually I throw the bones into a big freezer bag to make canned broth. They cannot have any meat at all, (except heat treated fish meal) but they often free range so they find all their own meat frogs are a particular favourite. I will say that they have had meat, though not chicken that seems a bit wrong to me. however I won't give anything that'll leave something behind that could cause a problem if you see what I mean. They are not allowed to be fed any kitchen scraps, (I think I have said before but this ends up with the stupid situation where if I buy a loaf of bread from the bakers, and take it straight to them that's fine, but if I walk through the house on the way, that's illegal) but while they free range they have open access to the compost heaps. which tells me that kitchen scraps are not what my chickens want to eat, what they want to do is scratch the heap to shreads while getting to all those juicy bugs. Watching them run over the veg garden totaly ignoring all of the lettuces etc that they happily eat in the winter while chasing a spider is really funny. |
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Post by gracielagata on Jun 24, 2017 21:16:53 GMT
I was thinking that you likely sell the eggs and therefore have to be more careful. Annoying though that you can't use a perfectly functional item to give calcium back. Grind them up for the tomatoes then if that isn't illegal. Are you regulated on what you can feed them? Are you allowed to give them meat? Specifically chicken meat, for instance, since I know this skeeves out a few people out there. I keep a chicken food trash bowl in the fridge, and if chicken bones or whatnot end up in there, then to the chickens they go. THough rarely do they get chicken, as usually I throw the bones into a big freezer bag to make canned broth. They cannot have any meat at all, (except heat treated fish meal) but they often free range so they find all their own meat frogs are a particular favourite. I will say that they have had meat, though not chicken that seems a bit wrong to me. however I won't give anything that'll leave something behind that could cause a problem if you see what I mean. They are not allowed to be fed any kitchen scraps, (I think I have said before but this ends up with the stupid situation where if I buy a loaf of bread from the bakers, and take it straight to them that's fine, but if I walk through the house on the way, that's illegal) but while they free range they have open access to the compost heaps. which tells me that kitchen scraps are not what my chickens want to eat, what they want to do is scratch the heap to shreads while getting to all those juicy bugs. Watching them run over the veg garden totaly ignoring all of the lettuces etc that they happily eat in the winter while chasing a spider is really funny. Are the restrictions because you sell them, even only a few, or are the regulations in effect for any eggs home gotten? In my state, the only regulations I have are that I can't use grocery store cartons to sell them in (so you buy the blank ones online), I can't reuse cartons (though I am sure many do, as that is just a waste), and I can't wash them before selling (just a wipe down to remove clumps if one feels the need, or just keep those back for home). I think in my state, I am allowed to keep 3,000 or less hens without having any sort of licenses, as long as I sell from my property (no farmers market situations). There are no regulations in place stating what I can or cannot feed them, only that if a person labels them as organic, they better be able to prove it if ever questioned. |
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Post by Skandi on Jun 25, 2017 14:32:19 GMT
I can keep up to 30 hens with no regulations, they keep talking about upping the amount to 300, but I don't pay much attention as I would never want that many. I may only sell them to people I know and I must tell them that they come from unvacinated hens. The cartons sound the same. if you only eat them yourself and never give anyaway or serve them to someone who doesn't live with you, you can feed them whatever you like. No eggs are washed here so that's not an issue, I just keep any that have got dirty for my own use.
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Post by gracielagata on Jun 25, 2017 18:06:35 GMT
I can keep up to 30 hens with no regulations, they keep talking about upping the amount to 300, but I don't pay much attention as I would never want that many. I may only sell them to people I know and I must tell them that they come from unvacinated hens. The cartons sound the same. if you only eat them yourself and never give anyaway or serve them to someone who doesn't live with you, you can feed them whatever you like. No eggs are washed here so that's not an issue, I just keep any that have got dirty for my own use. That's good that the rules are only for non-household feeding. And I forgot Europe doesn't wash eggs. I only have 9 hens and a rooster, 3 unknown babies right now. Hoping for more pullets. I've had up to 15, but they aged and whatnot. I think I max at about 15 unless we build a new pen and coop. I didn't even think about (un)vaccination status. This is kinda neat learning the differences! |
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Post by Skandi on Jun 25, 2017 20:43:20 GMT
Less than you then, I have 7 hens and no roo, he died protecting them a couple of months ago. I was lucky last year, hatched 5 eggs and got 4 hens. I have a broody at the moment but going to break her, will get more next year when 3 of them hit 3 years old. Right now waiting on these ducklings to hatch!
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Post by gracielagata on Jun 25, 2017 22:33:47 GMT
I hear you on broodies. I have 2 that go broody every summer, but I only let one keep eggs. It is a bear to break the 2nd. I think I need to modify our small dog crate to give her a place to sit in the sun with air on her bum to break her faster.
Or maybe next year let them both have eggs, but she seems to go broody a little bit later, so I don't know how that would work.
We've had sorta bad luck on genders with previous clutches. First clutch gave us 3 babies out of 6 eggs. All boys.
Second time last year we gave her 10 eggs. One hatched. A girl who is very flighty but getting better.
This year, 10-12 eggs. 3 hatched. But I knew 2 weren't viable and forgot to take them, so I guess they don't count. I need to figure out how to candle early eggs to improve my odds (it can be done, I think, right?), or buy fertilized eggs...
Anyhoo...
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Post by Skandi on Jun 26, 2017 12:23:01 GMT
I'm wonderingh about stealing a duck egg to give to her, it'l hatch in a couple of days, she's been broody for over 10 days, might work.
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Post by gracielagata on Jun 26, 2017 14:10:45 GMT
Skandi,Now that is a thought. Let us know if you do it and how it works out. I wonder if the time difference will affect her? Chickens brood eggs for 21 days to hatch. She is there 10, so will hatch a duck at 12ish? Will her desire to mother override her confusion of the early hatch, I wonder? It's interesting now that I think about it with my 2 broodies. I let mom and babies stay in the main chicken pen, just with a separate gate-able enclosed nursery coop. She has no problems with any other hen or the rooster near her and the babies... except for the other 'dumb' broody. I wonder if she senses she might become a baby thief? Though as funny as that sounds and would be, most of the hens dislike the 2nd 'dumb' broody when she is off the nest and peck her when she comes too close to them. As soon as she breaks the broodiness, there are no issues. But oddly, this isn't an issue with momma hen and her babies.
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