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Post by Ozarks Tom on Nov 1, 2018 19:42:58 GMT
Some time back I started a thread about canning in 1/2 gallon jars, whether it would be as effective as quarts. We didn't really reach a consensus, so I said I'd do some canning in them and report back with the results.
Results: Lousy!
We canned 16 quarts and 2 half gallon jars of Brunswick stew. We increased the time in canner for the big jars by 40%. All the quarts sealed and stayed sealed, while the half gallon jars popped their lids after two months, possibly sooner as we've been plagued with gnats for a couple weeks.
Logically is should work, and maybe others can get it to, but we're staying with quarts. Too much time and effort to lose good food.
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Post by feather on Nov 1, 2018 19:49:28 GMT
Ozarks Tom, wow, that's sad, that loss. Thank you for sharing the information though. I always appreciate the failures as much as the successes for future reference. I canned some pepper sauce (enchilada sauce) and I ended up canning in qt jars when I ran out of pints. I haven't been back there to check them out, but when I do, I'll report it. Thanks Tom.
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Post by paquebot on Nov 2, 2018 3:36:49 GMT
First Brunswick stew canning instructions that I found say to pressure can at 10# for 90 minutes. If that wasn't done, would explain why the lids let go.
Martin
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Post by Ozarks Tom on Nov 2, 2018 14:22:48 GMT
First Brunswick stew canning instructions that I found say to pressure can at 10# for 90 minutes. If that wasn't done, would explain why the lids let go. Martin
Duh.
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Post by paquebot on Nov 3, 2018 4:24:08 GMT
Other than some juices, only safe method with ½-gallon jars is pressure canning. Not many pressure canners tall enough to handle such jars. Even the standard BWB canner is not tall enough. I use a 5-gallon stock pot and that's barely high enough. And, those jars only used for tomato juice.
Martin
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Post by Ozarks Tom on Nov 4, 2018 18:43:22 GMT
paquebot, Having canned foods for many years, we'd never can anything low acid like stew in anything but a pressure canner. In this instance we used our AA930, built to allow for stacking of two layers of quarts, plenty tall for half gallons. As per suggested here in my first thread, we added 40% more time at pressure. To be honest, I'm rather insulted you'd think I would do otherwise.
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Post by paquebot on Nov 4, 2018 22:36:52 GMT
Ozarks Tom, hope that you are not too insulted and come looking for me! It's often not wise to take things for granted. Based on just this thread, there was nothing to indicate what was method was used. One should assume that a proper method was used but assumptions are not facts. I could assume that you did everything right but can not assuime that everyone who is now reading this thread had also read the original thread. Just like a teacher who must teach the same thing over and over again. Since there were failures, it is corret to assume that operator or mechanical error is probably at fault. And, only the operator knows what he did. I do have one idea if these were old jars. Originally all CT jars were designed for caps and rubber rings. The rims were not polished and had ragged inside edges. To adapt them to flats, those rough edges have to be sanded smooth. Had to do that to all of my old blue jars. Martin
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Post by paquebot on Nov 5, 2018 4:10:06 GMT
If one intends to go against the rules when canning, do it the right way. 70 years ago, I saw 20 acres of garden packed in halh-gallon jars, nothing smaller. Wish I could remember how many jars fit into the PC but probably at least 20. Rules for that type of canning isn't supposed to apply to home canning but can be. I may have mentioned it here but will again. The method used to assure thorough heating is a pre-pressurized or pre-heating period. That is, bring the water in the PC to a boil but leave it vented for 30 minutes. Then close the vent and proceed normally. That's the only safe way to can anything but juice in half-gallon jars. And you did not hear it here!
Martin
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Post by Ozarks Tom on Nov 5, 2018 14:32:10 GMT
paquebot, I'll just leave all the canning advice and comments to you, obviously I'm too ignorant to add anything worthwhile. In deference to Melissa I'll just leave it there.
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Post by paquebot on Nov 5, 2018 15:13:07 GMT
Ozarks Tom,there would have been no conflict here had you mentoioned what method was used. Leaving it to the readers to assume something allows them to assume anything. Finding out after the fact still does little to solve the problem since we now only know the mechanics. Still missing is the time that was involved. Since there are no legitiment sources of time for half-gallon jars, stating that a certain length of time was added is meaningless. Canning advice must always be such that safety is stressed. In this instance, something happened to render the product unsafe. Taking your frustrations out on someone else doesn't cover your loss. Bottom line is that you either did something wrong or there was fault with the jars or lids. Half-gallon jars have been around just about as long as quarts and people have canned safely in them for as long. It's just that the entire home canning system is based on quarts and sn]maller. Martin
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Post by feather on Nov 5, 2018 23:14:42 GMT
Tom, I checked my quart jars of pepper sauce, even though it's not recommended in that size, and so far it is sealed.
Martin, I usually don't read your posts lately. If you had read the first thread on 1/2 gallon jars, which you did, because you posted on it, you'd know he had a big enough water bath canner and a big enough pressure canner. You'd know he mentioned he was going to try pressure canning them and you wouldn't have assumed incompetence, which was quite rude.
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Post by paquebot on Nov 6, 2018 0:03:57 GMT
Tom, I checked my quart jars of pepper sauce, even though it's not recommended in that size, and so far it is sealed. Martin, I usually don't read your posts lately. If you had read the first thread on 1/2 gallon jars, which you did, because you posted on it, you'd know he had a big enough water bath canner and a big enough pressure canner. You'd know he mentioned he was going to try pressure canning them and you wouldn't have assumed incompetence, which was quite rude. I could have known that Tom has a commercial canning kitchen but there was no indication that he was using it. Having somethjng and using it is two different things. One can only go by what information was given and the method was not given. I took the opening thread as a question as to why the jars did not seal. I only replied with the time that I had found for canning that product. That would be a starting point. It would appear that this thread was only to be a complaint about a canning failure rather than to find out why it failed. Blaming the jar is wrong if the jar is sound and proper methods are used. At the time, there were already well over 100 views, now double that. That information was for anyone else. It had no reflection on what method or time tha Tom used and thus was for anyone else's reference. I don't think that a reply of "Duh" has a standard meaning other than on the Simpson's. Generally it means "I should have known better." followed by smacking oneself by the side of the head. In this case, it may leave everyone else scratching theur heads. If two people end up pissed off at me but 200 learn something, that's why there are forums. Remember that I was banned from HT for being a know-it-all becasue a certain person didn't think that there may indeeed be those who do know it all. We may not really know it all but are expert in certain fields or know where to find the answers. We had one here for awhile until she felt insulted too many times and left. In your particular case, I suppose you are right in no longer following my threads after being informed that tomato skins do not dissolve in tomato juice. Just because you were wrong does not mean that you must be forever angry at me. It was your mistake, not mine, get over it. Now, does anyone else have any possible reasons why a master canner such as Tom wasted a gallon of Brunswick stew and if the contents of his 16 remaininf quarts are safe to eat? Martin |
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Post by feather on Nov 6, 2018 14:19:53 GMT
In your particular case, I suppose you are right in no longer following my threads after being informed that tomato skins do not dissolve in tomato juice. Just because you were wrong does not mean that you must be forever angry at me. It was your mistake, not mine, get over it. First of all, it is rude to assume you know how I feel, but, since you brought it up, I'm not angry with you. I'm tired of your arrogance and intolerance towards others. There is more than one way, your way, to do things. Secondly, you exaggerated what I said. I did not say tomato skins dissolve in tomato juice. I said I grind up the tomato peels with an immersion blender when I make tomato sauce. Fiber is healthy for most people. Maybe not for you. Different strokes for different folks. |
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Post by paquebot on Nov 6, 2018 16:10:58 GMT
feather, now who's being rude and arrogant? In your case, the only reasoon for you to have said what you did about not reading my posts would be because of the tomato juicw thread. True, the word "dissolve" was not used but that's that only way that skins and seeds could become liquid. That was a jjuice thread, not a sauce thread. If it was easy for you to become confusesd between the two, think of what some novice would think. When dealing with food and food safety, facts are utmost importance. Regarding this particular thrread, I still fail to see what Tom's anger is directed at. His opening post leaves a lot of questionsas to what he was looking for. Usually such posts are to find out what went wrong. No method was given as to what process was used to solving it becomes a bit difficult. I merely posted one fact in hopes that it may help. Then posted another possibility and there are others if more facts are known. Just looking at it from a non-cew detailsanner's viewpoint, it would appear that Tom is blaming the size of the jar for the failure when that is never the case when proper methods are used. If anyone has a problem with the sharing of information on something that few know, then they can remain in their generic, dull world. Now, bottom line here is that Tom had a major failure when quite probably using proper equipment and methods. However, we can only assume that here as details are scarce. The home canner who makes the least mistakes is a novice who sticks to instructions with no exceptions, sometimes to where it is laughable to an experienced one. When done, they have a pantry full of properly sealed jars. The expereinced ones know all of the shortcuts or think they do. To this day, I will never know what went wrong with 9 pints of carrots from a single batch which all popped within a month. I had to have done something wrong but will go to my grave claiming that I did everything right. Tom is probably thinking the same but ashamed to admit that he may have screwed up somewhere. Only he knows and nobody can help him until somebody else kniws. Oh, I guess that I would have to admit being arrogant when it comes to a particular subject that I have considerable expertise in. On HT, one rue on Karen's forum was that any master canner would be banned from her forum. That's no way for a forum to exist. In this instance, I have had experience canning in half-gallon jars but ethics say that I should not be giving out advice which is contrary to what officials say is right. I've already done so on this thread, like thumbing my nose at those who say it can't be done. If that's arrogance, guilty as charged! Madtin
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Post by viggie on Nov 6, 2018 16:59:35 GMT
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Post by paquebot on Nov 6, 2018 21:59:03 GMT
That's all it took to make my day   When you consider that I'm down to one eye and a magnifying glass, you're lucky that it doesn't come out rated X! I can olny proofread after something is posted and sometimes it just isn't worth being perfect. Martin |
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