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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 4:01:25 GMT
Seen a Guy Bailing Hay in Large Round Bales. Told my wife shame they no longer Bale Small Square Bales, give kids a Summer Job. They can no longer hire young Kids to work. What do you mean? Oh they have to be 16. 16 heck I had already worked 8 years before I turned 16, drove Hay Truck, started driving Grain Truck at 14.
She went on to explain it was Child Labor Laws. I dealt with this when I was Forman at a Seed Plant. Had Kids in there all they could do was Shovel Grain and Stack Bags on Pallets. Couldn't even run a Sewing Machine. Plus could only work so many hours and had to be certain times. I was needing help all day and some times all night.
I don't know just seems a shame. I'm sure there is young kids that would like to work hard and make money to pay their way but can't.
Rockpile
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Post by Wendy on Jun 7, 2015 4:03:53 GMT
Kids still bale hay around here. They aren't 16 either. Just not a lot of people putting up square bales anymore.
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Post by shin on Jun 7, 2015 5:42:58 GMT
Child labor laws have turned out generations of folks who don't like to work.
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Post by wally on Jun 7, 2015 5:52:44 GMT
Its impossible to find any kid around here who wants to work a few hours here and there as their schedule permits. Things like cleaning gutters, mowing the yard, on a rider, and any other thing we may need help with. We pay 10 to 15 dollars per hour and just cant find anyone.
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Post by kawaiitimes on Jun 7, 2015 11:38:42 GMT
In my opinion, the will to work has to be started at home long before kids are ready to look for a summer job. Child labor laws don't extend to family work in most cases. It is far too common for kids to grow up with maids and landscapers around here. Our 3 year old is the only kid I know who has a chore list. My neices and nephews are only made to do chores as punishment... Not as a part of day to day living. Work is hard enough as it is, but you can't expect kids to learn the satisfaction of a job well done if the work they are started on in the home has negativity attached to it from start to finish.
Thank you for this little soapbox moment.
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Post by Callie on Jun 7, 2015 18:11:20 GMT
When we hauled hay in the barn ( small rounds) my dad had to work harder than we did. No wonder everyone went to large rounds. We still put up the small squares. We have the boys from the detention center come help us haul it in. They think the first load is fun...after that, it's just work, but they like being out doing it.
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Post by willowgirl on Jun 7, 2015 18:27:43 GMT
There is a high school-aged boy who works on the farm where I do. He works like a man and has an excellent attitude. He'll see stuff that needs to be done and take it upon himself to do it without being asked. He also saved up his money and bought himself a truck that is nicer than mine! If he's representative of the upcoming generation, we're in good hands.
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Post by Mari-in-IN on Jun 7, 2015 18:49:22 GMT
Kids still bale hay around here. They aren't 16 either. Just not a lot of people putting up square bales anymore. Same here...
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Post by hermitjohn on Jun 7, 2015 19:13:04 GMT
Child labor laws have turned out generations of folks who don't like to work. Nasty old child labor laws. Lets bring good ole days when factory owners chained children to the looms and made them work 16 hour days and fed them on stale bread and water. Paid them 50cents a day. That'll teach them to love to work!
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Post by shin on Jun 7, 2015 20:57:23 GMT
I'd guess you'd be the only one advocating that hermitjohn!
When children aren't allowed to do any work by law, they'll scarcely do a 180 and learn to like it as they grow older! The habits of youth are the habits you build for a lifetime!
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Post by Rustaholic on Jun 7, 2015 21:21:42 GMT
I'd guess you'd be the only one advocating that hermitjohn! When children aren't allowed to do any work by law, they'll scarcely do a 180 and learn to like it as they grow older! The habits of youth are the habits you build for a lifetime! You always can bring them up with a chore list at home.
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Post by shin on Jun 7, 2015 21:28:27 GMT
Well, chores have there place, but I'll say it this way, there's chores and there's work, and they aren't exactly the same thing.
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Post by Rustaholic on Jun 7, 2015 21:46:38 GMT
Well, chores have there place, but I'll say it this way, there's chores and there's work, and they aren't exactly the same thing. Yard work time and time again is work. Taking the garbage out on time without being told each time is like a job. If the chores are given in a way that they understand you won't be reminding them to do them that will teach responsibility.
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Post by hermitjohn on Jun 7, 2015 22:55:49 GMT
I'd guess you'd be the only one advocating that hermitjohn! When children aren't allowed to do any work by law, they'll scarcely do a 180 and learn to like it as they grow older! The habits of youth are the habits you build for a lifetime! Hey you are the one that said child labor laws make them dislike work. I am just pointing out the actual reason child labor laws were enacted, so children arent taken advantage of by greedy buisinessmen, like in the good old days. I guess you missed the point. Child labor laws were also supported with intention it would prevent children dropping out of school to go to work. And yes, like lot laws, it eventually went bit overboard. But maybe real point of America is for children to learn they have choices. Nobody is ever going to LOVE manual labor when they feel forced into it and dont get to negotiate their compensation. Being chained to the loom so to speak. If child wants to hire out at offered rate then wonderful, but it should always be their choice. And there is a whole grand canyon of difference between doing family chores and hiring out to somebody for pay. Chores go along with being member of family and living in that household. No pay should be involved. Working for somebody outside family for pay is, ... well for pay. Its not a duty (unless family is destitute), its an economic choice of having his own spending money or not. If the child is willing to forgo own pocket money and not work outside home, so be it.
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Post by horseyrider on Jun 8, 2015 1:15:37 GMT
Around here, child labor laws are very different for Ag. My grandsons were 13 and 15 last summer, and spent quite a few weeks detasseling. It's hot, humid, wet, sweaty, grueling work, from early until the heat drives everyone in. They were the only workers who never missed a single day. They got a nice big bonus for their attendance, and several bumps in pay along the way. Their attitude is positive and they work like a team. They've already been invited back for this year, as crew leaders. We started early, talking about workplace ethics and expectations, when they were very small. One summer we had a big secret; they'd come on the weekends and work, and they'd learn about what gets guys fired and what gets guys promoted. At first it was make-work, like picking up sticks and hauling them to the burn pile. They chopped out rotten stumps with a hatchet, raked leaves, cleaned stalls, swept the barn, and other chores. Even as little guys, they worked with the determination and earnestness of grown men. They were paid each time, and they each had a canning jar at my house with their name on it that served as a piggy bank. When Christmas drew near, they'd saved every single dime. And every single dime they spent, was spent for gifts for someone else. It's paid off well in a solid work ethic in both of them, now 14 and 16. Kawaiitimes, it's as if you and I had spoken about workplace attitudes years ago. You nailed it, girl. I'm only a little worried about the next generation. And as long as these boys live close by, I don't have to worry much about work getting done here.
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Post by Wendy on Jun 8, 2015 1:25:11 GMT
Not an option here. I for one do not plan on having any of my kids sitting in my house doing nothing because that is what they choose to do. Most times you need to make your kid work whether they like it or not. When our kids got old enough to get a job, they got a job. Tommy mils cows on a local dairy. Luke worked at a local pizza place until he went off to college where he tutored 2 nights per week there. Katie works at McDonald's. Not because they came & asked if they could go to work, it was because we told them they were now old enough to work so they needed to get a job. It wasn't a choice here. This is/was besides the chores they had here at home to do. The 3 younger kids all have chores they do every night.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 1:58:04 GMT
Me and my Brother was beaten if we didn't work hard enough for the guy my mother was married to. This was Logging, Firewood Cutting for sale, Working Cattle and Hogs which many we had paid for. I had enough when I had just got out of Basic Training with USMC and I was beaten because I didn't want to give him my pay.
As far as work I started working for a Dairy Farmer at 8. .50 an hour, he wasn't ever hard on me, had me helping with Show Cattle, Feeding and working with Cattle and Hogs. Might spend Winter picking rock off the fields. I got old enough he had me running equipment, Plowing and Disking fields, Brush Hogging, what ever needed doing even Hauling Grain to the Elevator. I was still working for him when I turned 16. With my money I bought Calves, Clothes and a Car. Calves and Car the guy my Mom was married to sold them.
At the Seed Plant, I was working all the Guys the same until I got word from the Main Office I couldn't have any of the running any equipment even Sewing Machine or Printer unless they were 16. If they was in School I could only work them so many hours a week. But what got me was I found out because this was Agricultural I didn't have to give them breaks, I believe even a Lunch Break which I gave anyway.
Surprise today coming home did see some Young Men putting up Small Square Bales.
Rockpile
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Post by my3boys on Jun 8, 2015 2:04:38 GMT
Not an option here. I for one do not plan on having any of my kids sitting in my house doing nothing because that is what they choose to do. Most times you need to make your kid work whether they like it or not. When our kids got old enough to get a job, they got a job. Tommy mils cows on a local dairy. Luke worked at a local pizza place until he went off to college where he tutored 2 nights per week there. Katie works at McDonald's. Not because they came & asked if they could go to work, it was because we told them they were now old enough to work so they needed to get a job. It wasn't a choice here. This is/was besides the chores they had here at home to do. The 3 younger kids all have chores they do every night. Way to go Mom! Same here. All 3 boys started working at least part time at 15. Fast food places at first, then with that experience under their belts, they were able to get jobs at nicer restaurants when they were older making good money in tips. All the while finishing up high school and attending college. And yes, they had time for sports, play in the band, drama, etc. Oldest DS also worked at an airport, sold replacement windows, then got a good job selling cell phones, until he found work in his field (degree in aerospace). Middle DS worked at Disney until he graduated with his degree in paramedic and plans on eventually getting a 4 year degree and do flight rescue (yikes!) and youngest DS is selling cell phones for the same company his brother worked for while he works on his degree in structural engineering. These are happy, well-rounded young men. Hard work helped develop character and a strong work ethic. No entitled kids in this house!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 2:14:47 GMT
Can't find kids that want to work in the hay fields. Too much work for them. Dad went to round baked for pretty much this very reason. He simply couldn't put up 2000+ square bales by himself after I moved away from home. Ppl don't know what it is to wrk hard anymore.
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Post by my3boys on Jun 8, 2015 2:50:26 GMT
Can't find kids that want to work in the hay fields. Too much work for them. Dad went to round baked for pretty much this very reason. He simply couldn't put up 2000+ square bales by himself after I moved away from home. Ppl don't know what it is to wrk hard anymore. If things keep going the way they have been in this country, people may rediscover the merits of hard work again whether they want to or not. It will be a necessity. And that won't necessarily be a bad thing. In fact, it may be just what we need to turn our society around. Hardship tends to cause people to wake up and learn how to prioritize.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 3:15:41 GMT
Kids still bale hay around here. They aren't 16 either. Just not a lot of people putting up square bales anymore. Very few put up square bales of hay in my area. I typically see square bales for sale after the last cutting (3rd or 4th, depending on the summer). Some states have tried to enact laws limiting what farm kids can/can't do. While farming is not the safest of professions, you can't fix stupid nor can you eliminate 100% of accidents. Most farm accidents I've seen (or heard about in my family) injured adults. The teen fatalities were due to tractors overturning. A grain elevator operator in NW IL had teens doing jobs that they should not have been doing. Sadly deaths occurred.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 3:27:50 GMT
Not an option here. I for one do not plan on having any of my kids sitting in my house doing nothing because that is what they choose to do. Most times you need to make your kid work whether they like it or not. When our kids got old enough to get a job, they got a job. Tommy mils cows on a local dairy. Luke worked at a local pizza place until he went off to college where he tutored 2 nights per week there. Katie works at McDonald's. Not because they came & asked if they could go to work, it was because we told them they were now old enough to work so they needed to get a job. It wasn't a choice here. This is/was besides the chores they had here at home to do. The 3 younger kids all have chores they do every night. The word "chores" rubs me the wrong way. There are certain tasks/things that have to be done as one is a member of a household. Cooking, cleaning, and laundry aren't called chores when the (typically) female does them. It is called housework. My kids were expected to do certain tasks around the house. We never paid an allowance (and don't get me started on paying for grades). We did not allow our children to work during the school year. Matter of fact neither daughter was not allowed to work during the summer until they graduated high school. We also had limits on extracurricular activities during high school. But both worked during college and over the summer except when overseas for school (paid for by them, not us). I heard plenty of "so and so doesn't have to do X" which I knew was not the case. I also heard "I'll hire someone to do X". To which I replied "that's fine but you'd best know how it should be done so you don't get ripped off".
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Post by Awnry Abe on Jun 8, 2015 3:47:54 GMT
I am all for chore lists. They are necessary, but they don't teach work, they teach responsibility. Performing the chore is work, but that isn't the virtue that is instilled. Ultimately, a chore instills the idea that if one does not perform the work, someone, or something, else will suffer. Responsibility is an incredible virtue worth learning.
Work is an entirely different animal. Work entails putting your own desires aside for an extended period of time for the purpose of personal providence. ('Providence' isn't the word I am after. I don't mean it in the divine sense. Sufficiency isn't it either, but the word escapes me.) . If you have dependents, then that responsibility you learned as a child doing chores comes along side and makes you work with an even broader sense of mission.
So if you have a young ones that have a difficult time with the concept of work, just give them less and let that 'personal providence' kick in. It won't take much, and the results are pretty immediate.
BRP, I thank God every day from mid-January to April 1 that someone had the good sense to make big round bales instead of those little square bales. We don't need 3 week's worth of black buggers and 100+ degree hay lofts to give an opportunity for personal providence. Getting them in the barn in June/July is only half the battle--eventually you need to feed the stuff.
As for alternatives to that hard labor. I can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting a job that would be perfect for a kid that can take instruction and follow through with the effort. And I would be remiss to allow the government and its laws stand between the child and his pursuit of life.
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Post by Wendy on Jun 8, 2015 4:19:22 GMT
My kids worked during school & still kept a straight A report card. My kids do not get an allowance. They get to sit down & eat each day & that's what we tell them if they dare to complain.
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Post by hermitjohn on Jun 8, 2015 11:50:00 GMT
Not an option here. I for one do not plan on having any of my kids sitting in my house doing nothing because that is what they choose to do. Most times you need to make your kid work whether they like it or not. When our kids got old enough to get a job, they got a job. Tommy mils cows on a local dairy. Luke worked at a local pizza place until he went off to college where he tutored 2 nights per week there. Katie works at McDonald's. Not because they came & asked if they could go to work, it was because we told them they were now old enough to work so they needed to get a job. It wasn't a choice here. This is/was besides the chores they had here at home to do. The 3 younger kids all have chores they do every night. Something wrong if kid just wants to sit around and count spots on the ceiling. They have not been encouraged to be curious and follow up on that curiosity. I was always curious about something or other as a kid. You know LEARNING ON MY OWN. I did my chores, then my time was my own. Usually made sure I was outside someplace so nobody was tempted to get creative to make up new jobs for me.... I feel sorry for those with no real time of their own, where they are forced into constant school activities and work. Or feel forced into peer type social activities (good or bad). They are not learning how to make their own choices, only how to follow orders and "do what is expected". Be a good little worker bee consumer. They wont ever be innovators or independent thinkers, just followers.
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Post by Wendy on Jun 8, 2015 14:02:48 GMT
My kids have plenty of time on their own. There needs to be a balance of working & fun time. Too many kids think they should have all fun time.
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Post by wildhorseluvr on Jun 8, 2015 14:53:22 GMT
My DH was raised on a farm and worked his hiney off as a kid. His step-dad had grown up on a ranch, and was also an ex-army sergeant who had fought from D-Day to the end of the war, so he didn't tolerate slackers. At age 6 DH and his older brother had a "business" delivering sawdust to the local meat market. He was driving tractor by age 8 (in the fields, rain or shine, not for fun) and driving to town for truck or tractor parts by age 9. His mom and step-dad said he could outshoot any man in the county by age 9, step-dad included. He weeded the garden, milked cows, cleaned barns, fixed fence, etc all from an early age. He could build almost anything, do wiring, plumbing, car repair, etc. At age 14 his step-dad hired him out to work a farm up the road, he did all the haying by himself. At age 15 or so he had a profitable business raising rabbits, and by 16 or 17 he was pumping gas at the local gas station. He worked hard to put himself through 5 yrs of college, and spent his summers milking cows for his parents. DH acknowledged there was a lot of hard work, and could remember days he was so frozen his step-dad had to pry him off the tractor and carry him to the house. But he also remembers the neighborhood parties his folks hosted, picnics and swimming at the lake, the home built "airplane" he made (and flew...briefly!) at age 9, etc. He even had time for wrestling and FFA in high school. He never felt abused and had many fond memories of his childhood.
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Post by Melissa on Jun 8, 2015 15:04:11 GMT
My kids all worked for themselves through HS- babysitting, house-cleaning, yard work, construction work, etc... They were all hard workers and saved their money. They all still had to do chores at home, we had a calendar with a rotating list, it was never an issue. They also helped with hay and cutting firewood and working in the garden. Some work is fun, some work is just work and you do it whether you want to or not. Most people tend to go for the easier path, that seems to be human nature. As I get older, I tend to like to do things as easily as possible too...
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Post by oggie on Jun 8, 2015 17:14:28 GMT
Once, when I told my son that he needed to help out around the house, he pointed at the cat and said, "Why do I have to? The cat does almost nothing and gets food, toys and a warm place to sleep. Heck, it doesn't even have to go outside to poop and, when he poops indoors, you bag it up and carry it outside for him. The one job that he sort of has is killing little creatures. He seems to enjoy that part, yet you get cranky with me when I want to spend a few hours blasting monsters on my computer. If anything, I should be working a whole lot less."
So, I had to sit him down and have THE TALK once again. I did my best to explain the complications of the world in general and cats in particular. I told him that, if he could find one mention of a domestic cat in the Bible, he wouldn't have to mow the lawn. Then I told him that, if I got any more guff about the care we have to take when dealing with evil, he'd spend most of the rest of this summer's daylight hours at vacation Bible school.
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Post by themotherhen on Jun 8, 2015 21:38:11 GMT
My 16 year old son mows grass, does yard work, and general labor in our neighborhood. He also cleans out the chicken coop and helps in the garden. He oversees the harvest of berries with his 3 younger brothers. He also does the dinner dishes every night. He does it with a good nature for the most part. If attitude ever surfaces regarding his chores, his electronic devices are taken away. That hasn't happened very often. He does get several free hours a day, and he enjoys fishing, exploring the woods, and talking to the elderly farmer next door. He helps him around his farm in exchange for the farmer teaching him building and animal care. They are good buddies, and I am so grateful that he has an older mentor that enjoys sharing knowledge. My husband and I always had jobs as teenagers. We used the money to purchase our clothes and pay for our lunches. That was common among our friends. DH has taught all of the boys to work and I am glad. They are currently learning some very valuable lessons about growing food and chickens.
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