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Post by paquebot on Jul 2, 2015 12:50:51 GMT
Depleted soil can't be fixed, it has to be covered and new soil built up on top. Not quite true but that is one way. The whole idea of repairing depleted soil is to add back what was taken out. The two main things taken out would be phosphorus and potassium as previously stated. Organically, phosphorus can be replaced with rock phosphate and potassium with sulfate of potash. (Nitrogen would then come from whatever is grown as the result of adding those two elements.) Non-organic means would be triple superphosphate and muriate of potash. Either way, tilling or plowing the P and K into the soil would be all that is needed to return fertility. Martin
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 13:31:21 GMT
The Back to Eden method is way overblown. It does include good mulch and composting techniques, but wood chips are not a miracle mulch. And for it to work at all in the first year you really want brushy stuff with leaves still on it, not stump grindings or trunk disposal... Heartwood without a lot of leaves will absorb nitrogen for a year before it starts releasing it back.
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Post by Otter on Jul 2, 2015 14:59:12 GMT
You want to heal land, put animals on it. B) Pack them in a small space and buy in hay. Put big round bales every 20-40 feet all around, several months worth all in at once. Plan on extra hay because this is rather wasteful of hay. The animals will trample everything, scatter the hay into a mulch, and poop everywhere. It will look like a disaster, but next year you till that and it will be great. If you can't afford to do that to the whole place at once, next year you move your fence and claim a different patch. This is what I am doing, and I can attest that not only does it work, but without being able to plow, it is the only thing that works for us. Heavy animals like cows and horses (we have horses) will take the place of a plow a little in that they will churn up the ground and trod in lots of the manure and hay. In rocky spots, where they can't trod it in as effectively, it takes 2-3 times the amount of hay and time. Also, here, it doesn't take a year. When I move them to the next spot (by putting out a round bale, and they move themselves) I put lime over the manure/hay pile the horses leave, and after that's been rained on, whenever I think about it, I'll throw some corn on there, and my free range chickens will go scratch the surface over, turning in the lime and their own high-nitrogen poop. In 3 to 6 months I have a circle of lovely soil. LOL, I had someone ask with wide eyes if I had aliens because of all the green circles, but they're starting to fill it. But if it's old potato ground, you can plow it. The trick is just lots of organic matter, and turning it under. No idea where you live, but I've worked at enough stables to know about half of all the boarding stables I've ever seen pays a manure service to come haul it off. A far steadier and more reliable method than charging people who want it by the pick up load, everyone starts out with that idea until the pile is huge, so leave a number at those places. Also, put an ad up at the feed store "Manure hauled off, you load" People will call you. Rotted hay is also great, so if you drive past any gnarly old roundbales, offer to drag them off. When you have a few inches over the top, plow it in. Wait a bit, and when it starts to rot, plow it again And then harrow. After you harrow, wait a month and test. Last I heard, Lime is organic, being burned rocks, and depending on how much manure and what kind, you might need it. Or, you could call up the closest decent size town, ask what they do with yard waste, and go get a few loads of leaves. And then plow those in. It doesn't take years if you keep on "turning the pile" with a plow. Just sitting on the top, sun and rain kind of cook it off. Go to any patch of woods - they get a nice layer of leaves added every year, but the soil is generally pretty thin. But turned into the ground and the magic starts. Which is why we had NO success with this method when we just had goats, they're too light. that only worked where I went out and turned it. You can still see the patches
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Post by Rustaholic on Jul 2, 2015 23:11:03 GMT
Depleted soil can't be fixed, it has to be covered and new soil built up on top. Eventually the nutrients from the new soil will leach down, but you have to build it before that can happen. Use chickens to prepare it, then start planting a food forest, one small section at a time using the Geoff Lawton method. In the meantime, you could build a B2E garden or a RGGS garden to provide food for your family. Do some video watching on youtube, specifically searching for "food forest" "back to eden garden" and "rain gutter grow system". You'll find tons of great info by people who have done it and succeeded at it. I love watching how others have solved the problem and then copy what they did. I say that is negative nonsense. There has been sixty years of nothing but grass, weeds and trees on that soil. The trees especially pull up what is down deep and spread it on top of the soil with it's leaves. I am going to buy some mulch hay and break up the bales and place chunks around on an area that I won't get to for a couple years. That hay alone will put down great stuff into the soil. I have done that up near the house for a garden area.
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Post by spacecase0 on Jul 3, 2015 3:54:45 GMT
Rustaholic I think you will be just fine doing what you are planning, did you look at the book I linked to ? (read it free here) soilhealthweb.org/book/the-farm-that-wont-wear-out/after 100 years it still applies and is put very well amazon also sells it, but it is small enough to just print
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Post by paquebot on Jul 3, 2015 4:05:05 GMT
I'd have to question "mulch hay". If it's hay baled just for mulching purposes, could be sometbing like canary grass/marsh hay which is closer to straw than than anything even a starving horse would eat. It would look good after it broke down but it would be more carbon than NPK. But if it's good hay that's gone bad and good only for mulch, put on as much as your pocketbook can afford. You won't regret it.
Martin
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2015 17:42:06 GMT
My hay field has wet spots. If the baler doesn't have enough cattle to just feed it out right away it would only be good for mulch.
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Post by Rustaholic on Jul 3, 2015 22:08:40 GMT
I'd have to question "mulch hay". If it's hay baled just for mulching purposes, could be sometbing like canary grass/marsh hay which is closer to straw than than anything even a starving horse would eat. It would look good after it broke down but it would be more carbon than NPK. But if it's good hay that's gone bad and good only for mulch, put on as much as your pocketbook can afford. You won't regret it. Martin Yes when I say mulch hay that is just hay that was either baled too wet or got rained on in storage.
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Post by Rustaholic on Jul 4, 2015 1:37:37 GMT
Rustaholic I think you will be just fine doing what you are planning, did you look at the book I linked to ? (read it free here) soilhealthweb.org/book/the-farm-that-wont-wear-out/after 100 years it still applies and is put very well amazon also sells it, but it is small enough to just print Yup, and I downloaded it.
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