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Post by copperkid3 on Jul 25, 2015 19:21:20 GMT
As some of you are aware from my other thread, I've been blessed with (3) summer surprises, in the new additions to the herd from unexpected pregnancies..... first with Rosie giving me a new doeling on Tuesday this week and then the next day when her half-sister Ruby, presented with twins; a boy and a girl. I thought everything was going well.....but since I've never had summer kids before, figured it was better than birthing in the winter.....lost a number this last cold spell during Dec/Jan. My pond digger came this morning to pick up his dozer(s) and had his girlfriend and her girlfriend, who wanted to see and take pics of the babies, so we went to the back of the barnyard area where they tend to congregate; in search of them. Found Rosie and her girl immediately under the big black oak tree, but Ruby was no where to be seen. Checked over the hillside and nothing in that direction and then began a systematic search of the assorted dog (goat) igloos and other shelters set up in the area. Found her hiding inside a converted oil tank with the twins and tried to shoo her out so I could retrieve the kids, which she reluctantly did. While the pics were being taken, I noticed that she wasn't really "with it".....and seemed distant with her head down and not taking heed of the strangers who were around her babies. Since she's a very attentive mother, this seemed out-of-character and I commented on it, that she seemed 'sick' or something.
I then noticed that her kids were thin and hadn't been fed today at all. So something is definitely wrong and hope that someone can give me some quick pointers on what I could possibly do. I'm already planning on getting a nursing bottle out and the goat kid milk replacer made up and likely will have to start feeding the kids soon..... wasn't looking forward to having a couple of bottle babies and of course, it couldn't have come at a worse time.
My truck is broken and I have no means other than a 10 sp bike to get to town. So my options on getting treatment from a vet for Ruby, are slim to none; although I do have some old penicillan in the frig which I'm considering as better than nothing. And at what dosages and how often?
Any other ideas folks?
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Post by copperkid3 on Jul 25, 2015 21:34:58 GMT
Well..... Ruby's gone... just now found her stretched out full length with her head sticking out of the entrance to the oil tank. Her eyes were just starting to glaze over, so likely not dead much over an hour. Her babies were hiding in the back, behind her. After pulling her out of the way, I reached in and hauled first the doeling and then the buckling to the outside and fresh air. They went over to their mom's body and cried a few bleats .... whatever killed her was fast-acting. Picked the dual up and walked up the hill to the barn and then on to the house. Found a temporary holding pen, put a cover across the top to shield them from sun and rain and then placed a small piece of plywood to cover the entrance. As of right now, I'm heating up milk replacement on the stove and then we'll try our first feeding and see how that goes. Both are skinny as toothpicks and may not have eaten anything since yesterday. ... but still appear alert and moving around on their own okay.
Sad day, but figure it was on borrowed time anyway for Ruby, as last year she almost died from what I believe was listeria. Managed to get treatment to her in time, then, and she pulled out of it.....still, she is one of the old timers and we had our tales (tails) to tell.
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Post by Bear Foot Farm on Jul 25, 2015 22:34:00 GMT
Sorry about your goat
I'd suspect Milk Fever, which is a severe calcium deficiency.
They can be fine one day and dead the next
I'd give any other does that are pregnant or nursing extra calcium, and check them all for signs of anemia from worms
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Post by manygoatsnmore on Jul 25, 2015 23:07:10 GMT
Oh, I'm so sorry to hear this. I always thought goats were the absolute worst patients - it seems like they are determined not to live if they can die. I hope you are able to get some milk into those kids and raise them. I wouldn't use milk replacer, just whole cow's milk from the store.
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Post by mzgarden on Jul 26, 2015 1:54:01 GMT
I'm sorry you lost her. Keep us posted on her kids. I second the idea of cows milk instead of replacer, if you can. I know transportation is problematic, so if you can't, you can't. Best of luck and holding a good thought.
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Post by copperkid3 on Jul 26, 2015 1:55:03 GMT
Checked out the symptoms of "milk fever" (not a fever at all, but rather low blood calcium, which is known as hypocalcaemia) and many of them matched, so that is likely what did her in. I do recall earlier when checking her out while the ladies were here, that her muzzle/nose area felt cold to the touch, instead of warm as a normal goat would have. However, I'd never seen this before in my goats, so was unaware that this could happen. Something to be more aware of for the future hopefully. fiascofarm.com/goats/milkfever.htmAs to the babies, my initial trying to get the doeling to try the bottle with a larger rubber lamb nipple failed miserably and I knew that unless we got something into them before evening, they wouldn't make it another day. My buddy had his truck break down yesterday after running me back home with a quarter ton load of metal for fabrication of my truck bed, so he had had to borrow his wife's car to come out to work on it this afternoon. When he heard about my dilema, he offered to drive me into TSC to get some other nipples and when we got back, also offered to help feed them. He was truly a Godsend and a true friend, as I've always had problems doing the foster feeding on my own. Together, we seemed to make it work and it was a wonderful sound to finally hear those suckling sounds which indicate a successful bonding of the kid to the bottle and learning to work it correctly. Both together took all 16 oz and probably a few ounces more besides, before saying 'enough' for the night. Hopefully they will remember what that thing is in the morning and it will get easier in the days, weeks and months ahead. Going to try and wean them asap, as I'm just not cut out to be a foster goat grandpa.
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Post by Bear Foot Farm on Jul 26, 2015 23:18:20 GMT
"ASAP" is going to be 8-10 weeks minimum
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Post by copperkid3 on Jul 26, 2015 23:32:19 GMT
"ASAP" is going to be 8-10 weeks minimum I'm aware of that.....doesn't make it any easier knowing it though. Fortunately, they BOTH have taken to the newer nipples and know exactly what they're good for. So it may not be such a perceived burden after all. In fact, it's time for their evening feeding right now. Ta ta.....
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Post by mzgarden on Jul 26, 2015 23:38:23 GMT
Glad they both took to the bottle so quickly - that's always a relief. The fun part of bottle babies in the closeness you get to have with those cute little bundles. Hope they grow like weeds and do well for you.
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Post by mzgarden on Jul 30, 2015 12:26:18 GMT
How's it going so far? I think about you and them every time we give our bottle baby wether a bottle.
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Post by copperkid3 on Jul 30, 2015 12:52:26 GMT
They're doing great!!!
I really should be using two bottles at the same time, as they both "fight" over the single one....the buckling is bigger than his sister and it's a bit comical to watch him butt her out of the way to get his 'fair' share and then some. They both hollar and follow me around the place; although the boy has followed me the farthest and got to meet his dad and related relatives for the first time yesterday. One of his cousins decided she didn't like this new arrival and knocked him down twice before I intervened, but he seemed to accept it without much fuss.
They have been getting fed twice a day; once in the morning and then again in the late afternoon. About 12 ounces each, at each feeding, however yesterday, I upped that amount to about 18 ounces each and they just barely finished that ...
It's amazing how fast they are growing as well, in just the short amount of time they've been on this planet!
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Post by shellymay on Jul 30, 2015 13:44:43 GMT
Copperkid..........No don't give them that much at one time as you will bloat them and have kids down and a lot of times runny poop when over fed.....Please read up on bottle feeding kids, always best to try to feed smaller amounts FOUR feedings per day, I could never fit that in my schedule so I fed 3 times per day for the first few days then I started them on the self feed bucket....
I would put lets say 6 oz for each baby in bucket for their morning feeding and I would add another 6 oz for their lunch feeding and hang bucket in am and then off to work I went, if they ate all in the morning then they went without at lunch time (their fault not mine) but the total amount wouldn't kill them at 12 oz per if they drank all....anyhow after work I would get bucket and wash out and add another 6 oz for supper and 6 oz for late night snack, repeat again in morning! as they grow yes you will increase their amount in bottle or bucket but you need to figure out what schedule for feeding will work for you and then work on the amount per feeding....
I only raise sheep but the same is for either species when talking about bottle feeding, of course the milk is different for sheep so don't use sheep milk for goats...
IF you have more question feel free to ask as I just wanted to jump in real quick to stop you from feeding them so much as new babies....
Sorry about momma goat and yes I agree with the milk fever, you can give them your own calcium from your vanity in a pinch, dilute in water and give orally.....
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Post by copperkid3 on Jul 30, 2015 14:10:35 GMT
shellymay: Appreciate the info....I was always under the impression, that you fed them all that they were able to (or rather, all that they wanted to) at the time of feeding. Since I'm feeding them together, they both jockey for position and become very demanding when the other sibling is getting 'their' fair share. It might be better if I separated them and fed one at a time.... pigs do better with competition; goats not quite the same. The boy has had runny poop from day one; on his mother's milk and continues....the girl still has yellow poop, but not runny. Don't think that I can get the 3 feeds in, as my schedule is too packed with things in the middle of the day.
Will just have to work it out as best we can and hope for the best.
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Post by shellymay on Jul 30, 2015 15:15:34 GMT
Many things you can do.....yes you can seperate during feeding and make sure each gets right amount but I would only seperate at feeding time, keep together the rest of time as they will help teach each other how to..........always one is smarter to start drinking water from bucket first over the other, same with eating hay and grain, so these items best to keep together all day and just put one in pen or cage at time of bottle feeding.... Okay for you schedule and not having time for several feedings per day, NORMALLY the nipples you buy will fit a 2 litter pop bottle, they sell at all farm stores a calf bottle and a BRACKET to hold calf bottle, you don't have to buy the calf bottle only the bottle holder or bracket because a 2 litter pop bottle fits in the bracket, all you have to do is hang bracket on wall (might have to nail up a board) and put 2 litter bottle with a certain amount of milk in and put a bungee cord over the end or something to keep the bottle from going up and out of said bracket.... Of course when bottle is upside down in bracket with nipple facing down you will want to make sure you have the right kind of nipple on bottle so it just doesn't all run out on ground, by the right kind I mean it has to have the X cut at the end of nipple, the kind with just a through hole won't work....Using this set up is and can be a lot cheaper then buying the bucket and all things for said bucket! I hope to hear back from you when you cut them back on the amount and that it cleared up the loose poop , If you want you could give them a little pepto for humans with a syringe again some of this is on the internet..... Another thing is if you over feed they will never LOOK for alternative things like water and solid food makes sence right, at around 2 weeks it will be wise to have a small bowl of water out for them so they will discover and show interest in and will learn quicker to drink some water this way, same with solids like hay, they will or should start nibbling on hay when they are about two weeks of age, don't waste a whole bale as they will just poop and pee in it, just but a little in a bowl and leave out for them. Again If they are not over fed they will discover these alternative foods quicker, Its hard to teach the little ones if they have no doe to help teach them.... Note: don't put water in a bucket that they can drown in as this has happened to some people, just a small bucket..... There is a rule of thumb about how much to feed as far as amount of milk, I believe it is 1 oz for every 5 lbs of the animals weight, you might double check me on that Hope this helps and if you have more questions feel free to ask....Dang just remembered something else bottle babies need their cdt sooner then dam raised kids/lambs as the part for over eating in the shot helps.....
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Post by shellymay on Jul 30, 2015 15:18:16 GMT
Copperkid, sorry also wanted to mention that you can always put them up for sale if your schedule doesn't have time to devote, lots of people want and looking for bottle babies Surf your area and check out prices!!!!
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Post by copperkid3 on Jul 30, 2015 16:19:47 GMT
Copperkid, sorry also wanted to mention that you can always put them up for sale if your schedule doesn't have time to devote, lots of people want and looking for bottle babies Surf your area and check out prices!!!! It briefly passed my mind..... but probably NOT going to happen.... these came from a favorite doe and these are the last of her line. So I think I'm going to keep them!!!
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Post by mzgarden on Jul 30, 2015 16:30:47 GMT
Good to hear things are getting stabilized and they're making you laugh. Our bottle wether is getting about 14-16 oz of cows milk twice a day now. He started at 4 a day, 10-12 oz. As he got older, the amounts went up by a couple ounces, but the time between bottles was extended. He got exposed to pelleted feed and hay. He is now 3 1/2 months and gets two bottles a day and he sucks that bottle dry in no time. He is comfortable eating feed and hay as well. His poo is berries. At 4 months, we'll probably go to one bottle, assuming he's continuing to grow and thrive.
Well done saving them and I'm thinking pictures might be coming along any time now? (hinting broadly).
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Post by shellymay on Jul 30, 2015 16:37:31 GMT
Copperkid,
Secretively I am glad you said that , it will be great and the friendliness of the animal you just can't beat when bottle raised!
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Post by copperkid3 on Jul 30, 2015 17:31:01 GMT
Maybe it's just me and the luck of the draw so to speak.... but ALL I can remember ever having to bottle feed in the past, have been little bucklings....hence I've always felt that bucks were much more friendly towards people than does were, when mature.
Anybody else have an opinion on that matter?
Right now, since I've got BOTH to try and compare... it's really a toss-up. The buckling is a bit bigger than his sister and has followed me around further than she, but to be fair, she was born with her front left ankle a bit weak.... such that she "knuckle-walked" on it until just today....which kept her from being a little shadow under my feet as well. The only thing that bothers me, is that they've now figured out where I live and have started to climb up on the back porch and wait for me to either come out....and then start bleating at me! Either that or they both wait there for me to come back from wherever I went to avoid them....least ways, that must be what they have to be thinking!!! Believe or not, I do have a life outside of taking care of little goaties... or at least I used to have a life. If it's not the goats, then it's making sure that the 95 guinea keets that are cooped up at the barn, are fed and watered four times a day!!! LOL
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Post by shellymay on Jul 30, 2015 17:51:32 GMT
Wanted you to know this incase you need it..
Scour Halt is a pig scour medication which works well on goat kids.
Also this might be helpful down the road....
www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/goatmedications.html
As far as your new question, I think it is the individual animal as I have seen friendly in both sex, but will have that one that is not as friendly and it varies year to year!
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Post by bluejeans on Jul 30, 2015 17:53:12 GMT
.... Believe or not, I do have a life outside of taking care of little goaties... or at least I used to have a life..... Welcome to your life for awhile. Not much experience here with bottle-babies except calves. I will move mountains NOT to have any more on bottles.
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Post by copperkid3 on Aug 12, 2015 3:46:40 GMT
Just a quick update on the kids...
Took them with me for the 3 day weekend U.S. 12 Michigan's Largest Garage Sale,
where we had a spot reserved in the Jonesville City Park and they were the BIG ATTRACTION~!!!
Could have sold them a thousand times over (if I'd wanted to) and if I'd only thought to charge for the petting zoo priviledges...
I'd have cleaned up royally.
Everyone loved them and they of course, had a natural talent for working the crowd as well.... was a good experience for them to meet other people and animals too.
They are now taking in about 32 ounces of Save-a-kid formula each, per day, and have probably doubled in size and weight as well.
Noticed that the girl has been the early learner; having found and drank from the pond last week by herself and has also
been seen picking up loose leaves and tenatively 'tasting' them to see if they are something special.
Today, BOTH of them followed me out to where the log splitter was in front of the large pile of wood
and they hung around while daddy played with his 'toy'. I then observed them eating various leaves off
of various plants growing there....before becoming bored and heading back to their shelter by the house
and calling it a day. The poop problem has cleared up somewhat, but is now a different color and still a bit runny.
I have hopes that the addition of green matter into their diet will possibly solve this shortly.
I'm now toying with the idea of building a goat cart and training them to pull it together.
Anyone else ever tried such an endeavor? If so, what are the ins and outs one should know?
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Post by copperkid3 on Sept 4, 2015 1:09:34 GMT
"ASAP" is going to be 8-10 weeks minimum Just thought I'd bring everyone up-to-date on what's been happening with the twins so far. Today, they are exactly 6 weeks old and have been growing like weeds. The runs cleared up by the 2nd week and I noticed that the girl (Dora the Explorer) was even starting to actually eat vegetation on that date as well....the boy (Smudge), took a few days longer, but was watching his sister eat and decided to give it a try as well. Have been using up the old 25# bag of Sav-A-Kid formula and each kid takes down between 38-40 ounces at twice/day feedings. That is until tonight's feeding....I usually start out with Dora *(lady's first you know) and she started, took two swigs and then spit the nipple out and wanted no more, despite my trying several times more to get her to take it. Smudge (didn't have to ask him twice) took the rest of the bottle and I decided NOT to give either of them anymore. Both tummies are full, so I'm wondering if she *(Dora), has already stuffed herself on grass, or is this possibly a sign that she's weaning or is it something more serious? The irony of this whole situation, is that if she is weaning herself off it, was that I only had enough to do one more mix for tomorrow.....so earlier in the week, I'd had special ordered another 25# bag and had it shipped to the closest TSC, which is just about 6 miles from my home and was notified earlier today, that it had arrived. So I pedaled my 10 speed Schwinn, on into town and strapped it onto my backpack and brought it home between the showers that came thru later in the day. If I busted my butt for naught.....the little stinker!!! Seriously, though, they're BOTH darlings and I love them bunches....
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Post by manygoatsnmore on Sept 4, 2015 18:51:24 GMT
So glad to hear all is well with them. I knew they'd have you by the heartstrings - it's hard to bottle a kid and not get totally attached!
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Post by copperkid3 on Sept 4, 2015 19:31:31 GMT
Well... up until a couple days ago, I'd probably agree with that last part.
Had some guys come out and wanted to buy a couple of bucks for an upcoming bar-b-que.
Have been trying to get rid of Hercules for a couple of years now without much success; he's half wild with large horns and gives my herd sire headaches with having to keep him in his place during the rut. And then there's Rowdy... an upcoming stud who was my oldest 'bottle baby'.... they wanted BOTH of them, even though I tried to steer them towards an older doe that has mis-shaped tits and is just about at the end of the road as far as producing much of anything goes. Nope, they wanted Rowdy and it was with mixed emotions that I walked over to him, grabbed him by the horns and led him to the back of their mini-van. Once there, I tipped him over and then hog-tied him and then all of us lifted him into the vehicle to join his brother. Didn't get near enough for them, as I should have, but there are now two less mouths to feed, as well as removing Champ's closest competitors; which are now, either one of his own 7 month old sons (Copperkid) or a year and a half old half-brother named Patrick, who is also about the same size as the 'kid' (as well as also being a former bottle baby).
Still....the money that I received for them, will go to buy hay to get their brothers, sisters, aunts and cousins thru the winter months ahead.
And so the circle of life continues....
BTW: Dora got her appetite back this morning!!! Wolfed down 2 whole bottles all by herself and was still looking like she could go to round 3.... - she must have had an upset tummy last night.
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Post by copperkid3 on Sept 18, 2015 15:48:25 GMT
Yesterday the twins turned 8 weeks old and I've noticed that they are usually 'stuffed' when it comes around evening feeding of the bottle, so have decided to start the weaning process. Began by adding one less cupful of formula and decreasing the amount that they get in the morning by about a bottle (16 oz.), as well as that amount in the evening too. They seemed to be a bit surprised by how fast the feeding concluded, but otherwise, no complaints.
However, when I try feeding the geese, guineas and ducks immediately thereafter, I find some "sneaky" goats getting into the pelletized feed....although neither really seems to care if they get caught, until, I sic the dog on them. Then it's running for their lives, or running for protection under/between/thru their daddy's legs....so essentially a losing proposition all the way around.
Today's episode may well have 'cured' Dora.....took her a long time to be convinced that she could come back up to the barn and be comforted again....Smudge, not so much....nothing seems to faze him.
And as soon as I turn my back..... he's back to mischief once again.
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Post by countrymom22 on Sept 29, 2015 0:28:34 GMT
That's what makes goats so endearing, they are such characters!
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Post by copperkid3 on Oct 16, 2015 1:20:34 GMT
Today the twins turned 12 weeks old and are officially "off the bottle" .... They got the last one just a little over an hour ago.
Told both of them to 'nurse' it and try & make it last, but no go!!! LOL
They looked so disappointed when I told them: "THAT'S ALL FOLKS!"
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Post by manygoatsnmore on Oct 16, 2015 3:24:38 GMT
Lol, yeah, they'd happily keep sucking down those bottles as long as you're willing to supply them. Be prepared for a few complaints while they get over being bottle babies!
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Post by shellymay on Oct 16, 2015 13:36:16 GMT
12 weeks and just coming off bottle, SPOILED goats Something tells me that you will miss this just a little also!
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