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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 16:34:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 17:16:19 GMT
Yes I know there 80% UE so most will do anything for a $$ and they say famous but in truth most don't know of this Lion.
Just mainly media making such a Big Deal of it.
Rockpile
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Post by mollymckee on Aug 6, 2015 2:38:24 GMT
The way the lion was killed was wrong. It was against the law. It was not sportsmen like at all. IMO there is a lot comparing apples and oranges. The ugly America killing a lion, out of season, baiting him out of a reserve, letting him suffer for 40 hours, makes us all look bad. It does not have anything to do with starving kids or selling baby parts.
There is something wrong with killing for pleasure. I certainly would not want that dentist working on my teeth.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2015 3:17:34 GMT
The way the lion was killed was wrong. It was against the law. It was not sportsmen like at all. IMO there is a lot comparing apples and oranges. The ugly America killing a lion, out of season, baiting him out of a reserve, letting him suffer for 40 hours, makes us all look bad. It does not have anything to do with starving kids or selling baby parts. There is something wrong with killing for pleasure. I certainly would not want that dentist working on my teeth. You ever think the Media might be lying? I tend to believe the Hunter believed everything was legal. He shot it with a Compound Bow which was Legal. Even thought the Media don't know the difference between Compound Bow and a Crossbow. I don't believe he had knowledge of the Lion being brought over there the way it was. Think about it $50K The PH would do anything to make this hunter Happy. As far as searching for 40 hours. Do you know how Big a Mature Lion is. Yes the Guy made a Bad shot. They did everything they could to put it down which they did. Most Guys I know Rifle or Bow will not go near that long to find a Big Game animal with a Bad hit. Know many GW say don't worry Coyotes have to eat.
Oh there is lots of Predators that need to be killed just to control numbers because they have no Natural enemy so they die very slow from other causes.
Now as far as using mine and your Tax Dollars to acquire Body Parts to sell after their Murder to make more money. You think this is right? Really!!!!
Rockpile
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Post by mollymckee on Aug 6, 2015 4:14:52 GMT
No I don't think selling body parts or whole babies is okay. I just have seen one too many comments comparing the killing of the lion with planned parenthood selling babies. They are both wrong. They have nothing to do with each other.
I do believe the dentist knew exactally what he was doing, this isn't the first time he has ignored the laws and been caught. He paid $50,000.00 for a trophy lion and he didn't care how he got it. He was supposed to be with the guides when they bated the lion. Wouldn't you wonder why you were dragging a dead elephant behind the truck? Wouldn't you plan your trip during hunting season. Even if he didn't know, he certainly should have. It was his responsibility to know.
I am not against hunting. I'm against killing for no reason. Killing for the sake of killing is sick. Around here if you shoot it, you eat it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2015 5:17:24 GMT
Somewhere there is a difference between hunting and killing. The Indians hunted the buffalo. The Anglo-Saxons killed the buffalo.
Sometimes dangerous animals are hunted and killed. Americans tend to impose their sensitivities and behavior on the rest of the world. They don't live amongst dangerous animals (other than themselves). What would have happened if a Zimbabwean had killed Cecil? Other than the money spent there?
I have an uncle who goes to Africa every three years to visit a mission his church supports. He likes to hunt but has no trophies. What he does shoot is entirely consumed by the locals.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2015 19:54:55 GMT
Somewhere there is a difference between hunting and killing. The Indians hunted the buffalo. The Anglo-Saxons killed the buffalo. Sometimes dangerous animals are hunted and killed. Americans tend to impose their sensitivities and behavior on the rest of the world. They don't live amongst dangerous animals (other than themselves). What would have happened if a Zimbabwean had killed Cecil? Other than the money spent there? I have an uncle who goes to Africa every three years to visit a mission his church supports. He likes to hunt but has no trophies. What he does shoot is entirely consumed by the locals. With the coming of the use of Horses by Native Americans gave them advantages they didn't have before. They would drive hundreds of American Buffalo over bluffs killing them. There was so many the Native Americans got to where they would only harvest the Tongue. Native Americans of the North East was known to be cannibals. Of course this is not shared of their past.
I have been fishing in several places in the United States that were very dangerous because of killer animals around. I felt naked not packing a Firearm. Lucky for me they didn't decide to be aggressive.
I have had friends in Alaska charged by Grizzlies while hunting other animals leaving them no other choice but to kill the Bear. Had a neighbor killed by a Black Bear. The Bear shoved him up under the Bed in his Camper, fed on him for two weeks until, what was left was discovered.
Honestly I didn't see where this Guy killed this Lion out of Season. I do know Guys that have killed Big Cats over there and Baiting is standard and also from what I understand these Lions wore Tracking Collard and people would watch them with Scopes from a great distance. For the simple fact a Lion sees a Human as prey. They weigh few hundred pounds and kill animals much bigger. These were not tame Cats you would even think of petting. I did read many lies the Media did come up with which caused me to question them.
There is many animals hunted for Fur, Trophy or just control. Taste some times depend on age and or diet, some because of diet are just not edible. I've only killed one Big Game animal that came just to be Trophy. I was told by my Guide that the meat wouldn't be edible but because I paid to have the meat he got it for me. I found I couldn't eat it and fed it to my Dogs. This is saying a lot for me because I've ate several Animals and Fish that no one else would consider.
Ok I admit I see abortion as murdering Humans. And no matter what I see these stories putting Lions over Humans.
Rockpile
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Post by mollymckee on Aug 6, 2015 21:00:43 GMT
If you study the research you will find serial killers start by killing and tormenting animals. This lion was not doing anything to anyone. He was part of a research project. He was baited so he would leave the reserve he was on, so he could be killed. If the killing was legal, why did they make a trail away from the reserve to get him to leve it? And the ugly American paid $50,000.00 to do it. If you wonder why many people in other countries hate Americans, here are some reasons.
We have Cougars, bears, wolves, and moose around here. That does not give me the right to kill them illegally. Or someone to pay "guide" to set up a "hunt" and kill them. I don't carry a gun normally, I worry a lot more about rouge people than the wild animals. the vast majority of the animals do their thing and stay away from people, as this lion was doing. He was not a threat to anyone.
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Post by copperkid3 on Aug 16, 2015 3:05:48 GMT
If you study the research you will find serial killers start by killing and tormenting animals. This lion was not doing anything to anyone. He was part of a research project. He was baited so he would leave the reserve he was on, so he could be killed. If the killing was legal, why did they make a trail away from the reserve to get him to leve it? And the ugly American paid $50,000.00 to do it. If you wonder why many people in other countries hate Americans, here are some reasons. We have Cougars, bears, wolves, and moose around here. That does not give me the right to kill them illegally. Or someone to pay "guide" to set up a "hunt" and kill them. I don't carry a gun normally, I worry a lot more about rouge people than the wild animals. the vast majority of the animals do their thing and stay away from people, as this lion was doing. He was not a threat to anyone. I believe that if you do indeed do that research into the beginnings of serial killers, you'll find that they start out tormenting and/or killing SMALL animals.....before eventually graduating to people. The last time I checked, a lion is considered BIG GAME. So the analogy is weak at best. At worst, it appears that you (or the media source you neglected to cite that provided you with this info) is implying that the good dentist is or will soon become a serial killer. Is that where this is heading? Rather libelous don't you think? And I really don't wonder about why Americans are viewed as ugly and hated by others in foreign lands..... we tend to force our mores and warped views on them and then wonder why they get bent out of shape over it. Sending emails and letters to the Zambabwe president and DEMANDING that he extradite and throw that dentist into one of their prisons, seems to fit this bill for one thing..... My advice to you, is: Get over it.....not your lion, not your country.....and certainly not ANY of your business. gma.yahoo.com/cecil-lion-friend-beloved-animals-killer-speaks-113716227--abc-news-topstories.html# |
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Post by spacecase0 on Aug 16, 2015 23:10:56 GMT
I keep thinking of Jurassic park
if many large animals were out to eat you, would you really be annoyed if someone went and took them out ?
it was not like it was the last of it's kind or anything,
arrest him, fine him, or whatever, like we care...
the news seems to distract lately
pay no attention to anything real, like the economy, or who is causing this mess,
lets look at some obscure thing in Africa and play it up...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 0:31:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 0:42:07 GMT
Well, except for the fact that the authorities may track down the lion that killed the guide and euthanize him, which would be a shame.
At least that is what would happen in the U.S. if we had lions roaming about. Just look at all the instances of bears being euthanized for attacking and/or killing humans.
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Post by copperkid3 on Aug 27, 2015 0:54:25 GMT
Not even close to even..... Those who are calling for that dentist's blood; the one who killed Cecil, won't be happy until they get him extridited back to Zimbabwe, and then have him eaten by the lions!!! They're certainly not what I'd call "friendly" folk. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 2:04:09 GMT
And this ladies and gentlemen is the difference between al dente and détente.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 17:39:40 GMT
No I don't think selling body parts or whole babies is okay. I just have seen one too many comments comparing the killing of the lion with planned parenthood selling babies. They are both wrong. They have nothing to do with each other. I do believe the dentist knew exactally what he was doing, this isn't the first time he has ignored the laws and been caught. He paid $50,000.00 for a trophy lion and he didn't care how he got it. He was supposed to be with the guides when they bated the lion. Wouldn't you wonder why you were dragging a dead elephant behind the truck? Wouldn't you plan your trip during hunting season. Even if he didn't know, he certainly should have. It was his responsibility to know. I am not against hunting. I'm against killing for no reason. Killing for the sake of killing is sick. Around here if you shoot it, you eat it. The only thing 'illegal' about this act is that the guy shot a lion on a property where there was no quota. Period. That makes it poaching and illegal. All this other stuff is a lot of emotional claptrap by people that know nothing about Africa, wildlife or hunting. I have hunted Africa and I have never heard so much nonsense by people who simply do not know what they're talking about. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 17:41:38 GMT
If you study the research you will find serial killers start by killing and tormenting animals. This lion was not doing anything to anyone. He was part of a research project. He was baited so he would leave the reserve he was on, so he could be killed. If the killing was legal, why did they make a trail away from the reserve to get him to leve it? And the ugly American paid $50,000.00 to do it. If you wonder why many people in other countries hate Americans, here are some reasons. We have Cougars, bears, wolves, and moose around here. That does not give me the right to kill them illegally. Or someone to pay "guide" to set up a "hunt" and kill them. I don't carry a gun normally, I worry a lot more about rouge people than the wild animals. the vast majority of the animals do their thing and stay away from people, as this lion was doing. He was not a threat to anyone. Almost every word you post is an evident demonstration that you have no knowledge of the subject. You really should give it up. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 17:46:16 GMT
He was not a threat to anyone. I really can't let this go. This was a wild lion, he would cheerfully kill you and eat you in about ten seconds. Lions come out of the parks and reserves all the time, they come out to kill and eat cattle and other animals and sometimes people, that's why the people in Zimbabwe don't understand all the fuss, they'd get rid of all the lions if they didn't make money off them. In fact, lions were wiped out in Zimbabwe and they brought them back for the hunting and tourism, and the money associated with it.
He was a serious threat to anything edible that he came in contact with. His only real issue was that he was quite old for a lion and would have been hyena food within probably a year anyway.
I hunted next to a ranch that was next to a huge national park. The rancher and his son killed seven lions in one week because they were killing cattle and it was perfectly legal. Their only regret was that there was no foreign hunter with a lion permit around that they could have charged a lot of money for the privilege.
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Post by mollymckee on Aug 27, 2015 19:26:50 GMT
I don't want to get in a mud slinging contest with you but there was plenty done here that was not legal, starting with baiting the lion to get him off the preserve. You might want to do your homework.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 19:44:57 GMT
I don't want to get in a mud slinging contest with you but there was plenty done here that was not legal, starting with baiting the lion to get him off the preserve. You might want to do your homework. I have made multiple trips to Africa, I am extremely knowledgeable about African hunting so you don't need to tell me to do my homework, there is nothing illegal about baiting lions or dragging the boundary of reserves with bait. It happens all the time and is perfectly legal. You simply do not know what you're talking about. It has nothing to do with mud slinging but it has a whole lot to do with lack of knowledge. You apparently have the idea that baiting is to target specific animals. Anyone that knows how it works would find the whole idea hilarious. Animals cross these boundaries all the time, they do it when there is no bait, they do it when there is bait, sometimes they follow the bait, sometimes they don't. These are wild animals. The fact that someone darted him and put a collar on him doesn't change that fact one little bit. I repeat, the only thing illegal was that there was no quota for lions on that property this year, that's it. The anti-hunting hand wringers are just making stuff up to try to force up the emotional quotient.
I have been and continue to be absolutely appalled at the level of ignorance manifest by people commenting on this issue. Evidently they get all their knowledge of the wild by watching Bambi and the Lion King.
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Post by mollymckee on Aug 27, 2015 21:28:02 GMT
Maybe you'd like to give the media some of your knowledge. Obviously there is a problem. This guy also shot a bear in Wisconsin he had a few problems with. I have no problem with legal hunting. I hunt. I have problems with illegal trophy hunting and Americans that go to other countries, throw their money around, and think the rules don't apply to them. Actually, I don't like people that do things like that here either, but at least they don't make Americans look bad.
We have a friend that does big game hunting all over the world. He tries to kill animals that cause problems for people. He is also a surgeon and sets up clinics while he is there. He is well liked and respected. He does not cheat.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 22:11:08 GMT
Maybe you'd like to give the media some of your knowledge. Obviously there is a problem. This guy also shot a bear in Wisconsin he had a few problems with. I have no problem with legal hunting. I hunt. I have problems with illegal trophy hunting and Americans that go to other countries, throw their money around, and think the rules don't apply to them. Actually, I don't like people that do things like that here either, but at least they don't make Americans look bad. We have a friend that does big game hunting all over the world. He tries to kill animals that cause problems for people. He is also a surgeon and sets up clinics while he is there. He is well liked and respected. He does not cheat.
I've found that on almost everything I actually know something about the media is often wrong and there is no question that when the subject is hunting, particularly trophy hunting, not only are they monumentally ignorant that are beyond biased to the point of bigotry.
I've read about the bear thing and it doesn't sound good. On the other hand, in Africa you are 100% dependent on your PH when it comes to compliance so I don't blame the hunter for what happened, I blame the PH and the land owner.
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Post by paquebot on Aug 28, 2015 5:16:49 GMT
Back to the "lion kills safari guide" thing. Why were they on foot? Lions are not slow and they are never tame in Africa. We drove through a lion sanctuary in Natal/Zululand and advised to keep the car windows all the way up. No rolling them down to get a clearer photograph. There had been instances where a lion had pulled a window down or out by hooking its claws to the top.
Martin
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 15:25:44 GMT
Back to the "lion kills safari guide" thing. Why were they on foot? Lions are not slow and they are never tame in Africa. We drove through a lion sanctuary in Natal/Zululand and advised to keep the car windows all the way up. No rolling them down to get a clearer photograph. There had been instances where a lion had pulled a window down or out by hooking its claws to the top. Martin Probably for the same reason that fools want to have their pictures taken with the Bison in Yellowstone. Maybe they wanted to ask the lion if he knew Cecil.
But, the guide should have stopped it.
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Post by copperkid3 on Aug 28, 2015 17:51:05 GMT
Back to the "lion kills safari guide" thing. Why were they on foot? Lions are not slow and they are never tame in Africa. We drove through a lion sanctuary in Natal/Zululand and advised to keep the car windows all the way up. No rolling them down to get a clearer photograph. There had been instances where a lion had pulled a window down or out by hooking its claws to the top. Martin Probably for the same reason that fools want to have their pictures taken with the Bison in Yellowstone. Maybe they wanted to ask the lion if he knew Cecil.
But, the guide should have stopped it.
Well...... in a matter of speaking....he kinda did. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 18:04:10 GMT
Probably for the same reason that fools want to have their pictures taken with the Bison in Yellowstone. Maybe they wanted to ask the lion if he knew Cecil.
But, the guide should have stopped it.
Well...... in a matter of speaking....he kinda did. True, a rather draconian solution. |
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Post by oxankle on Oct 3, 2015 2:26:20 GMT
I'm with the idiot on this one; I see animals as subordinate to people and in many cases competing with them for food. When a lion invades a kraal and kills goats or cattle he is endangering the welfare of humans--men with spears have fought them for centuries. They eventually wiped them out of Europe as we at one time had wolves wiped out in most of the US. (Have you read The Last Wolf in Scotland?)
As for the park's pet lion--the American hunter paid his fee to the government and to his professional hunter. It is not his fault that the lion was someone's pet. Not more his fault than it is my fault that the tomcat I kill in my brooder house is the favorite of the old woman a half mile down the road. Too bad, Cecil.
I'm with Rock on the baby parts issue, too.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 7:13:40 GMT
Molly, your opinions on this matter make me sick to my stomach.
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Post by comfortablynumb on Oct 3, 2015 13:41:12 GMT
For the record, nobody was selling babies or baby parts. That was a concocted right wingy hoax to smear PP.
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Post by oxankle on Oct 3, 2015 14:04:07 GMT
Fact Check, Numb: Selling baby parts is exactly what they were and ARE doing. They cloak it as providing "fetal tissue for research". They go so far as to kill the infants by crushing the parts they DON'T want. It is a gruesome business, non-profit or not. Of course it is profitable for the highly-paid PP executives who run the business. Check their salaries and perquisites.
" .. the average salary for a top Planned Parenthood employee is $345,338, and the company’s CEO, Cecile Richards, rakes in $590,000,..."
A man who grows old and weak in the company of a woman who would kill her own children had best sleep with one eye open.
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Post by wally on Oct 3, 2015 23:36:40 GMT
For the record, nobody was selling babies or baby parts. That was a concocted right wingy hoax to smear PP. You did not hear the loud pop as you were |
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