pixie toes and the trimming of them

[mzgarden]

Trying to help a friend who has a doe that has pixie toes - pointy toes.  The hooves in general are fine until you get to the front and then the toes grow incredibly fast and to a point.

Two questions:
Do blood vessels run all the way out to the ends of these points?  My thinking is this is more like an over-long finger nail and maybe it could be significantly trimmed back and flat across the front of the hoof- to take off the points and then regular trimming from then on.  But I've experienced the 'gusher' of a trimming mistake and don't want her to have that experience.

What mineral/nutritional item might be lacking that would cause her front hoof toes to grow so fast to a point?  Her other goats don't have this issue but it seems to be worse now that she's pregnant.  All the goats are on pasture plus a grass hay with free choice minerals and are copper bolused 2x a year.  The pregnant does are getting alfalfa pellets mixed into their feed.  No other apparent health issues for this doe - just these crazy fast growing pointy toes.

[mzgarden]

Redfish, thanks. No limping yet, but that's the concern. I had one that I did not trim agressively enough very early on in our goat experience, and she did begin to founder. Vet came out and trimmed much more than I was - and voila, she's good now plus I learned.

She went ahead and aggressively trimmed the pointy toes and will take another go at it next weekend. Apparently it made a big difference and no blood.

I guess the question now is -- would more copper or more selenium for this girl make a difference in preventing crazy toe growth. Gotta do more research.

[barefootfarmer]

mzgarden, I've had the same thoughts about it being a lack of a particular mineral being part of the problem with particular goats. We did semi-regular hoof trimming with our little herd when we had them housed in their original field. Never had any troubles with weird hooves. Then, a month after we had to move them because of that barn fire, their hooves started growing kind of strange on two of the does. We kept trimming them, but they just kept going back to those pointy toes. And it seemed like they were growing faster than usual. The pasture in their new spot is mostly grass, with just a bit of blackberries. Their original spot had a hill, blackberries, nettles, all kinds of more goat friendly items for browsing.

I've been thinking it's a lack of some kind of nutrient that they were getting by browsing before, and now they are in an area not offering it. I'm going to buy them a bag of dried kelp as soon as my feed store can get it in. Kelp has always been a miracle worker with my dairy cows. And I think that some animals need more of certain nutrients than their herd mates might.

[Deleted]

Glad the vet was able to trim the points off. Is your friend nervous when it comes to hoof trimming? A lot of folks that I end up helping were just scared and didn't trim as aggressive as they should have.

Seeing that is the only goat in the herd with this issue it might just be that goats. Genetics is a huge role when it comes to hooves.

I have a doe that whenever I put her on alfalfa or a high producing dairy goat feed, her hooves grow much faster then any of the other does. Her hooves are narrow and long, so if I don't trim them more often she would have elf like feet. When she isn't on feed her hooves don't grow nearly as fast.

Did she ask the vet about more Se or copper? If she is already getting copper 2x yearly + free choice minerals I would be more worried about toxicity- unless she is in a highly highly mineral depleted area.

Toxicity can mimic deficiency. I know of a highly respected boer goat breeder who dealt with a lot of deficiency issues. She set a schedule for the copper to be given x amount times a year. After several years of doing this, she ended up losing 12 of her top breeding does. Thousands and thousands down the drain. All due to toxicity.

IMO She should talk to her vet before giving anything else.

[mzgarden]

@redfish, that first link does have some good information. I've bookmarked it so I go back and read it again.
barefootfarmer,hmmm, kelp. Haven't ever tried that, but I'd be interested to know if it makes a difference for you with their hooves. I do believe different goats in the same herd can have different nutritional needs so the kelp is an interesting thought.
@goatlady, she was nervous, plus I'm helping over email so I can't be right there either. I don't know her particularly but it seems when people know you have goats the word gets around and then someone calls out of the blue with a question. I always want to try to help. I've pointed her back to her vet as well, since while I want to help, I'm more comfortable if I can see/touch the goat. The info about toxicity is a little scary - gonna have to read up on that one too.

All: Really appreciate your perspective - I have so much to learn.

[Deleted]

We have high iron....Its a real pain in the butt! We had some binding issues too.

mzgarden, Your friend could always pull some blood and send it over to PADLS for a mineral analysis. Its not 100% full proof but it may help her to see if the doe is lacking something. We did this several years ago and I think it was about $35 a test.

[KittyNC]

In my experience it is selenium deficiency that increases the hoof overgrowth. I am in a severely deficient area acording to the USDA map so an extra shot of bose during the year made a big difference. Also one of my does and her kids have more of a problem than the others.

[here to stay]

Dec 13, 2015 12:30:17 GMT KittyNC said:

In my experience it is selenium deficiency that increases the hoof overgrowth. I am in a severely deficient area acording to the USDA map so an extra shot of bose during the year made a big difference. Also one of my does and her kids have more of a problem than the others.

The tricky part is that an overdose of selenium also causes hoof overgrowth. I think it's like kittyfl said, experience is needed. The husbandman's eye.