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Post by mzgarden on Dec 24, 2015 11:45:30 GMT
First time around with pregnancies, so I'm double checking to make sure we're feeding adequately in this late stage.
Our girls are 18 month old Nubian first timers(dry), due first week of February. In early Dec (60 days to kidding), we ramped their feed up to what they're getting now: 8 oz grain (Noble Goat 16%) plus 16 oz Alfalfa Pellets twice a day. They are on the best hay we could buy, plus minerals and baking soda free choice. In between the weather, there is still some option for them to be in the pasture, but I'm not really counting that in for nutrition at this point.
the future plan (4 weeks pre-kidding) is to give them copper bolus, CD&T and BoSe and trim their feet.
One appears to be more heavily bred than the other, although the kidding dates are days apart. Both have good FAMACHA and I'll get a fecal test after the first of the year.
Any concerns with our plan - we're first timers so all input is welcomed.
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Post by here to stay on Dec 24, 2015 16:28:15 GMT
I always held off with grain until the month before kidding, and, and starting small, gradually increasing it to be peaking after birth. I did want them to have extra alfalfa for the calcium and get used to it before kidding. But since their regular hay was mostly grasses, the potassium balance was ok with more alfalfa.
I always wormed soon after birth and would no matter what a fecal says because at that time worms can go from zero to a bazillion apparently overnight.
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Post by mzgarden on Dec 24, 2015 20:48:23 GMT
here to stay , thank you. From what I have found 1 flake alfalfa = 1 pound alfalfa pellets (assuming everyone is using the same sized 'flake'. Worming after birth no matter - works for me. I've got both Ivermect (not plus) or Safeguard wormer. @redfish , first, I'll have to disagree with you  - I like long answers. The more inputs I get with the explanations behind them, the better I can begin to determine what I need/want to do and why. Keep 'em coming. Interesting idea to feel around before there's a problem. I'll have to give that some thought. As to getting the birth fluid on you -- are you saying that seems to make a FF more willing to let you milk (or pretend to milk) her? Sorry, I got a little confused on the reason.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2015 3:31:05 GMT
My girls get grain year-round, just not as much as they do during late gestation. As my sheep run with our goats, this means that we have adequately sized goats and ROTUND sheep that look like cotton balls on matchstick legs. |
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Post by Wendy on Dec 26, 2015 4:19:41 GMT
My goats get grain all year round too. Minerals free choice & baking soda & grass hay. I mix alfalfa pellets in with their grain ration. Worm the day the kid.
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Post by motdaugrnds on Dec 26, 2015 12:46:12 GMT
My goats get quality orchard grass during bad weather and browse the rest of the time. (They only get a grain mixture...alfalfa pellets, whole oats, shredded beat pulp...during their lactation times.) I like to hold off grain after drying off, then adding it slowly during last couple of months of pregnancy. (Baking Soda and loose minerals year round and free-choice.) I also like to give Bo-Se during last month of pregnancy and worm day of kidding. (My area is not deficient in copper; so they do not need this. I discovered several years ago that giving BOSS to my goats actually "caused" them to become deficient in copper. Stopping this was good for my Nubians.)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2015 23:32:31 GMT
My goats get quality orchard grass during bad weather and browse the rest of the time. (They only get a grain mixture...alfalfa pellets, whole oats, shredded beat pulp...during their lactation times.) I like to hold off grain after drying off, then adding it slowly during last couple of months of pregnancy. (Baking Soda and loose minerals year round and free-choice.) I also like to give Bo-Se during last month of pregnancy and worm day of kidding. (My area is not deficient in copper; so they do not need this. I discovered several years ago that giving BOSS to my goats actually "caused" them to become deficient in copper. Stopping this was good for my Nubians.) Whoa. What's that? BOSS causes copper deficiency? Huh. Do you have a source for that info? I'd like to look into it. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2015 4:44:48 GMT
My goats get quality orchard grass during bad weather and browse the rest of the time. (They only get a grain mixture...alfalfa pellets, whole oats, shredded beat pulp...during their lactation times.) I like to hold off grain after drying off, then adding it slowly during last couple of months of pregnancy. (Baking Soda and loose minerals year round and free-choice.) I also like to give Bo-Se during last month of pregnancy and worm day of kidding. (My area is not deficient in copper; so they do not need this. I discovered several years ago that giving BOSS to my goats actually "caused" them to become deficient in copper. Stopping this was good for my Nubians.) Whoa. What's that? BOSS causes copper deficiency? Huh. Do you have a source for that info? I'd like to look into it. Yeah, I need to see that too. I give my goats a nice amount of it but in spite of bolosing I just recently found out how much they were craving minerals with copper in it. I don't normally have minerals with copper out because of the sheep but I had a hunch they were lacking something and offered them some. |
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Post by motdaugrnds on Dec 27, 2015 13:51:16 GMT
All I can tell you is what I experienced with my large Nubians. I am definately in an area that is deficient in selenium but it is NOT deficient in copper. However, when I read how other goat owners were raving about the benefits of BOSS, I started giving it to my goats. I added about 1/4 cup to their grain and that was the only change I made. About 2 yrs later I noticed my goats (especially my buck who always got the same amount of grain as my does) were showing symptoms of copper deficiency. Of course I ordered copper boluses and noticed the symptoms were less. I figured that was what I needed. I then had a financial hardship and stopped feeding the copper. I ALSO STOPPED FEEDING BOSS. In a very short period of time NONE of my goats showed any signs of copper deficiency. The conclusion I came to was that BOSS had interferred somehow in my goats' use of copper they got from my grass/brush. That was several years ago and not once since have I seen any signs of copper deficiency. You might want to know that a few years ago...after the above discovery...I started another item goat people were raving about, i.e. "Replamin Plus" which contained both selenium as well as copper. In using this on a "monthly" basis, I've not noticed any signs of either selenium or copper defiency. Thus, what my goats are thriving on is strictly browse, quality bailed hay, loose ["Golden...(something or other)..." from Haeggers] minerals, baking soda and a "mixture" (whole oats, alfalfa pellets & shredded beet pulp). The pregnant does get a shot of Bo-Se near kidding time simply to be sure the kids are getting some selenium from the start...no weak legs around here.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2015 23:43:09 GMT
BOSS have a lot of molybdenum in it? That might explain copper blocking
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Post by mzgarden on Dec 28, 2015 0:02:45 GMT
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Post by mzgarden on Dec 28, 2015 14:32:58 GMT
@redfish, excellent point -- there just is no one size fits all for goat nutrition. Each goat is different, each environment brings it's own minerals (or lack there of). This is one reason I truly value all the different inputs -- I don't see them as contradictory but rather information from folks I trust to be familiar with their own goats, recognize what works and what doesn't and be willing to share their own findings. I think the critical piece to the puzzle is getting info from people you know put their hands on their goats regularly and pay attention to small changes.
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Post by motdaugrnds on Dec 29, 2015 1:34:41 GMT
I totally agree that a goat owner needs to know what is in the water supply as well as what is coming up from the soil into the vegetation goats browse on. One great place to start learning this about any area is a visit with the local agricultural department as well as getting the water tested AND the soil diagnosed. Also a great way to learn what a goat is ingesting is to take a few leaves of your herds' favorite browse down to the ag dept and get an analyses of the leaves.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2016 3:18:36 GMT
Knowing the genetics and how they process the feed is an important thing to know. I have some does that need to stay on feed and some alfalfa while they are bred while others need to be taken off everything and just eat grass hay. I sold a small group of goats this spring, 1 momma doe, her 1 2014 doe kid & her 2 2015 kids. Told them they could bring the 2 mature does back to get bred. They only have my goats on clean land so I was OK with it. They were shocked when I told them NO feed and not much alfalfa. Why? They were nigerian dwarf goats and this line tends to have larger kids. The "momma doe" was under 60lbs and would have 5 pound kids. She was fed no feed and very little alfafla while pregnant. She would pour everything in those babies and if I had grained her she may not have been able to deliver the kids. Her BCS was always perfect though, never to fat or skinny. Some does get fed before breeding others 30 days before kidding. I am not a huge fan of increasing feed in the last month, it seems like it can grow the kids to large. If I can have a smaller kid that can be delivered easily but will still grow fast I'm happy Everyone has there own method, you just need to find what works for you and your herd. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 0:04:10 GMT
Knowing the genetics and how they process the feed is an important thing to know. I have some does that need to stay on feed and some alfalfa while they are bred while others need to be taken off everything and just eat grass hay. I sold a small group of goats this spring, 1 momma doe, her 1 2014 doe kid & her 2 2015 kids. Told them they could bring the 2 mature does back to get bred. They only have my goats on clean land so I was OK with it. They were shocked when I told them NO feed and not much alfalfa. Why? They were nigerian dwarf goats and this line tends to have larger kids. The "momma doe" was under 60lbs and would have 5 pound kids. She was fed no feed and very little alfafla while pregnant. She would pour everything in those babies and if I had grained her she may not have been able to deliver the kids. Her BCS was always perfect though, never to fat or skinny. Some does get fed before breeding others 30 days before kidding. I am not a huge fan of increasing feed in the last month, it seems like it can grow the kids to large. If I can have a smaller kid that can be delivered easily but will still grow fast I'm happy Everyone has there own method, you just need to find what works for you and your herd. I had what you could easily call everyone's nightmare kidding season last year. Two out of three bred does had kids too large to deliver. The mothers barely made it, the kids didn't. The only reason I came up with was that we fed mixed grass/alfalfa hay that sometimes had a little alfalfa and sometimes had A Lot. The does never looked overweight and in fact looked pretty thin once the kids were out. This year it's grass hay...just grass. It was traumatic though and I'm too nervous about kidding this year to look forward to it. |
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Post by mzgarden on Jan 5, 2016 20:13:26 GMT
@woolieface, I remember those heart-rending posts and it's one thing that's made me really nervous. First time goats and people for kidding this year at our place - everybody's due in early Feb. No near by goat mentors to call, so it'll be us and the vet if needed. My knees are knocking!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 21:55:48 GMT
@woolieface , I remember those heart-rending posts and it's one thing that's made me really nervous. First time goats and people for kidding this year at our place - everybody's due in early Feb. No near by goat mentors to call, so it'll be us and the vet if needed. My knees are knocking! What happened here is definitely out of the ordinary... sorry to get you all worried with our crazy kidding last year. Chances are everything will go just fine. We also don't have a vet close, it took way too long for her to arrive here and it was on Easter too. We had some really big lambs born too, but the sheep are Much easier when it comes to birthing and everyone came out fine in spite of the big bundles they were. I'll say a prayer your first time goes off without a hitch. Say a prayer for us that this year goes way better than last! |
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Post by mzgarden on Jan 6, 2016 22:27:59 GMT
@woolieface, thanks for the encouragement and I love the idea of trading prayers...count me in.
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- I like long answers. The more inputs I get with the explanations behind them, the better I can begin to determine what I need/want to do and why. Keep 'em coming. Interesting idea to feel around before there's a problem. I'll have to give that some thought. As to getting the birth fluid on you -- are you saying that seems to make a FF more willing to let you milk (or pretend to milk) her? Sorry, I got a little confused on the reason.
