Cheap and clever homemade turn signal switch.

[hermitjohn]

I'd run across this few years back, never tried it.  Well having turn signal problems on the old F250 so after fighting with OEM switch for a while and unable to get the left front turn signal to flash, I grabbed four new Bosch relays out of my mini stockpile and put it together.  Works great when I tested it, still have to properly and permanently install it.  Can just use toggle switch, but if the steering column switch still has even one working contact on each side, can use it for the toggle switch, the relays now doing the heavy lifting.   Article I found this at said it was more reliable than the Chinese aftermarket kind switch you mount to steering column with a hose clamp.  Or using a toggle switch with one of those trailer turn signal converter boxes where you have three bulbs on car but only two on trailer.  Click on the thumbnail to get full size pic.

[spacecase0]

I like that circuit quite a bit.
just happen to have bought 15 new 12V relays that I really don't have a use for (I just designed around needing them)
it is added to my collection of circuits now

[shellymay]

hermitjohn, I love the thought, time, labor you put into making things work by going around the standard OEM parts, but some how

I don't think a new drive could take or pass a driving test in one of your trucks

[hermitjohn]

May 19, 2016 14:32:20 GMT shellymay said:

hermitjohn , I love the thought, time, labor you put into making things work by going around the standard OEM parts, but some how

I don't think a new drive could take or pass a driving test in one of your trucks ;)

I have lot time and love tinkering without spending lot money.  Its also an interesting puzzle to out think the original engineers.

Actually if you can drive a manual transmission, my F250 is actually easier to drive with the current non-original Wilwood clutch linkage.  You dont have to build it to know how to drive it, though few seem to know or want to know how to drive a stick anymore.  And it shifts like an old dump truck, cause this is a heavy duty granny transmission from days when these were used or offered in anything from a half ton farm truck to a 2ton dump truck.  They are truly a heavy duty transmission and will outlast several vehicles if not horribly abused.  A person used to driving even manual transmission econobox isnt going to like the slow shifting dump truck-like transmission.  But not problem for me, grew up on farm with granny four speeds.  And back then the three speeds werent whole lot better.  I just like that its super reliable and cheap to keep.  Lot modern vehicles with super expensive automatics or light duty manual transmissions, when transmission goes, thats the end of the vehicle.  Craigslist is full of nice looking vehicles that "just needs a transmission"...  They dont mention how expensive this replacement transmission is going to be, especially if you have to hire it installed.  Thus instead of spending $800 for rebuilt light duty 5spd for my Ranger, I am adapting an old granny 4spd.  Also gives me the slow creeper gear that is nice getting up and down my driveway.

The turn signal switch.  Depends, if I use a toggle switch, a driver would then have to learn how to flip the toggle switch either left or right depending which direction he/she wanted to go, then manually cancel it by putting toggle lever in middle neutral position.  Not too difficult though annoying to remember to cancel it.  Self cancelling turn signals are very nice when they work.  I've had old vehicles where self cancelling part quits and I find myself at my destination with turn signal still blinking.  At one point had a special aftermarket flasher that made itself known loudly if you didnt cancel turn signal.  Too bad they dont still make them though I suppose I could wire in a buzzer of some sort to serve same function.

 If I find a still usable contact on each side of turn signal switch (and should be since both rear turn signals still worked) and wire it into my new one to act as the toggle switch, then it will self cancel just like it always did.  What went wrong that the front left turn signal stopped working was the electrical contact on that part of the OEM switch no longer contacts.  Hey its a 1984 truck, things wear out and break down in 32 years.  The four relays wired as shown in diagram, basically just replace the function of the contacts in the OEM switch.  And I dont have to take apart the steering column nor try to find a new replacement OEM turn signal switch assembly which no doubt would be crazy expensive.  They let you signal left and right both front and back, but also allow brake light to work just like original setup.  More modern vehicles have three bulb tail lights where turn signal and brake light are separate and dont need to cooperate.  Again you dont have to build it or know how it works to drive it.

Gotta remember I dont take the F250 out on road a whole lot so lot of this is unimportant here on the land, but when I do take it out, like it to be legal and not have it be a huge hassle to drive in traffic.  Its truly not a rural area anymore.  And its old enough and ugly enough to get cops attention all by looks alone, dont need to give them an excuse to stop me, for something like non working turn signal.  Its my old 4wd firewood truck, and rainy day truck to get up and down my horrible rutted steep driveway when a 2wd wont make it.  And a backup vehicle for when main vehicle is down for repairs like Ranger currently is.  So while I wait for bits and pieces mail order for Ranger, can putter to make F250 more functional.

[hermitjohn]

Might add, if you gotta go take some cop for a drive as part of drivers test, and you only own older ugly cars, might want to just rent a newer econobox for the event. I'd have to be pretty desperate to take cop for a ride in the F250. But if thats all I had.... make sure its legal and go for it.

[shellymay]

Now you understand  , yours works for you but may not pass the vehicle of the year award   Functional is sometimes best and I am with you

on that! Heck why buy a gate if you can use a free pallet

[hermitjohn]

Update:

Ok, other life events and weather caused delay. And ran into snag, since I am now using aftermarket generic amber LED turn lights on front to replace crumbling OEM plastic stuff. Found out flasher can doesnt like LED unless you either add resistors or a small incandescent bulb on each side. I have a $5 flasher on way that is supposed to handle super light load from LED lights, but added an incandescent bulb each side for now.

But this circuit is seriously cool. Just tested it with brake light switch hooked up and perfecto, it just worked, no hassles. Worked alone, worked with turn signal on, worked with lights on. Just worked. No hassle whatsoever.

Next trick after I get stuff soldered properly and switch mounted, is to see if I can make it also function as an emergency flasher. I think just adding a two pole toggle switch should do it. But also could be done with two more (or maybe just one if I think it through) Bosch relays and a one pole toggle. I cant remember ever when the emergency flasher worked on this truck. But again I bought this for firewood truck and occasional backup road vehicle when other vehicle down for repair.

Didnt really care if everything worked as long as turn signals and brake lights worked so I didnt get stopped. Just keeping rear turn signals working has been big hassle over the years, cause it can go months without being driven on road and old wiring stuff corrodes.

I also have little 12V piezzo buzzer coming on slow boat. Hook it up so I dont drive down road with turn signal on, since I think I am going to just operate turn signals with an external toggle switch (so wont be self cancelling) rather than wire it into old turn signal switch on steering column. See how much hassle that is, too much hassle and will first try the old switch and if that doesnt work, maybe add a switch off some modern car. It just needs to be self cancelling and act as toggle switch in this circuit. So I can use switch salvaged off a car with the three bulb tail lights (like one of my old Volvos) since the relay circuit takes care of making everything work with the older two bulb tail lights on the truck. Seems most modern cars use three bulb tail lights, well equivalent LED version of that.

Just an amazing cheap circuit though lot of connections to keep straight. I'd seriously consider this much superior to just about any other turn signal for 2 bulb tail light system. Even work fine as a converter when pulling a trailer with 2 bulb tail lights with car that has 3 bulb tail lights.

EDIT:  Ok, pointed out to me that its technically 2 filament and 3 filament tail lights.  Or one bulb and two bulb, one of the bulbs having 2 filaments in the two bulb system and the the one bulb having two filaments in the one bulb tail light.

[hermitjohn]

Well, poop, got the new flasher can that is supposed to fire LED lights without a resistance load added. Only marginally better than what I had, still required resistance load to fire properly. Also not super impressed with its quality. The one I was using looked better quality to me.

Reading on Amazon reviews and there is a $12 one with a ground wire that is supposed to flash regardless of load. Reviews were very good for it. Somehow the ground wire makes this possible???? But $12 for a flasher??? The old thermal flasher cans were like $1, but suppose that is in my head from the old days, money just aint worth what it used to be worth.

Think I will just wire in the incandescent marker light permanently and be done with it. I hate to, cause incandescent bulbs tend to be poor quality anymore and not last long. Stupid little marker light used like this means it burns out, then I no longer have working turn signals. Suppose just carry extra bulbs for it, which sort of defeats the use of long life LED turn signals. I'd look at OEM flasher cans out of car with factory LEDs, but suppose they are $40 or $50 now. Sorry but this just seems a strange world anymore.

[spacecase0]

flasher cans use a bimetal element that heats up with current, when hot it bends, breaking the circuit
when it cools off it connects again, so that is why they are load dependent,

a ground wire lets them do all kinds of other things
a circuit that switches with a timing circuit would be ideal, and you will surely need a ground wire for that.
but my guess is that they just put a resistor to ground and that is how they use the ground wire.

[hermitjohn]

Newer flasher cans have a little circuit board inside. Not thermal like old ones. You can see bit of it in some of them. Others have it hidden.

I was looking on ebay and if you can wait on slow boat from China, you can get the resistors very cheap that increase load, so even old thermal can will work. Sure they would last better than using incandescent bulbs wired into circuit. Incandescent bulbs are now both high price and low quality. Only reason I went to LED.

[hermitjohn]

Big thunderstorm this morning so wet as anything outside now.

But finally did experiment. Yeppers, can just add a two pole toggle to this new relay circuit to have it also serve as an emergency four way flasher. Probably could just use a single pole switch and couple diodes, but dont have diodes and do have an extra two pole switch. Or guess could use two single pole switches, switching both on to have fourway flashers working.

Nice to not need two flasher cans like in OEM setup, one for turn signals and one for emergency flasher. Though was handy if flasher can for turn signals went bad, could just use can from the emergency flasher circuit until you got to the store.

[hermitjohn]

That original turn signal switch is wonky. Sometimes it works as toggle switch for new circuit, sometimes it annoyingly has to be jiggled to get right side turn signals to work.

I finally just wired it so I can use either the original switch or a toggle switch I mounted on dash, either one or other to activate turn signal left or right. My choice, as long as one is in neutral off position, the other can trigger the relay circuit. The toggle switch always works but has to be manually cancelled. Only wired the old switch into circuit cause it self cancels. And as I mentioned there is now a second toggle so I have emergency flashers where all four signals flash. First time I ever remember having functional emergency flashers on this truck.

Some day may replace the old original switch with modular kind off some modern car. But really getting bit bored messing with turn signals on vehicle that rarely sees the road. The toggle switch always works so thats good enough for now and probably the future too. I still have those two little piezo buzzers on way via slow boat from china so wont drive miles down hiway with blinkers on.

NOw back to getting transmission put into Ranger. All bolt holes are drilled and tapped, so bellhousing bolts to the granny tranny. Now have to make pivot for the chevy clutch arm and open the hole in bellhousing where it has room to fit.

[hermitjohn]

Ok, hadnt intended posting further on turn signal thread. But today got both the piezo beepers and a cheap turn signal flasher can "with built in beeper". Hadnt expected much.

Plugged it in place of current can and BEEP BEEP BEEP. It has a piezo buzzer built into it I think. At traffic light they could hear this two cars over. You wont ignore it and drive happily for miles down hiway with your turn signal on!

No idea how long it will last but for less than $1.50 shipped, its a bargain even if it only lasts a year or two.

www.ebay.com/itm/152003068434?

[spacecase0]

most of the low priced electronics I get from Hong Kong work perfect and last for many many years.
if I am worried about something not working, I just order an extra

[Deleted]

Had to laugh had a car with no Turn Signals, Inspection Station wouldn't look at it. Told them it didn't need any. Blew their mind when they found I was right because back then they didn't come out with Turn Signals.

Rockpile 

[hermitjohn]

I remember cars that legally didnt need turn signals. They usually just had the one brake light if I remember. those are rare anymore and if you see one on street, its a restored antique. Even then you would be wise to have turn signals on any car driven on street/hiway, legally needed or not. Back then using hand signals were required. Left arm up, right turn, left arm straight out, left turn, left arm down, stop. Few people recognize hand signals anymore and it would be dangerous without functional turn signals. I never even see bicyclists use hand signals. They already figured out no car driver understood them. Without working turn signals, a restored antique most likely end up a crumpled piece of scrap metal.

But I hear you on inspections. Heck last year that there was vehicle safety inspection here, I got in big argument here with inspection guy cause the passenger side mirror was fogged. Left was ok. Well it was a 1975 Volvo. Yes it had a passenger side mirror (Volvo back then always ahead of their time), but in 1975 model year, passenger side mirrors werent REQUIRED. Told the guy to call the state cops and ask, but he wouldnt. Finally just took mirror off and went down street to different inspection station.

[spacecase0]

using signals is a legal requirement
if your car does not have turn signals, you have to use the hand signals,
if you don't have break lights, you have to use that signal as well, but I guess cars had break lights for a long time now
I have seen bicyclists ticketed for not using hand signals
everyone where I live seems to know what the hand signals are

so glad there are no scheduled requited inspections in my state

[hermitjohn]

Jun 6, 2016 13:11:46 GMT spacecase0 said:

using signals is a legal requirement
if your car does not have turn signals, you have to use the hand signals,
if you don't have break lights, you have to use that signal as well, but I guess cars had break lights for a long time now
I have seen bicyclists ticketed for not using hand signals
everyone where I live seems to know what the hand signals are

so glad there are no scheduled requited inspections in my state

At best people might pay attention to a bicyclist using hand signals.  I doubt it, but they might since they know bicycles dont have electric turn signals.  But nobody expects an automobile driver in modern world to use them.  Nobody is looking for hand signals and probably just assume the guy is knocking ash from his cigarette or exercising out a cramp in his arm...

If driving such an antique automobile you might be legally ok with cops using hand signals, but in real world traffic it would be as if you werent using any signal and you would be putting yourself in danger.  And at night it would be pointless short of having little flashing lighted arrows on the sleeve of your shirt....

[Deleted]

Jun 6, 2016 21:52:37 GMT hermitjohn said:

Jun 6, 2016 13:11:46 GMT spacecase0 said:

using signals is a legal requirement
if your car does not have turn signals, you have to use the hand signals,
if you don't have break lights, you have to use that signal as well, but I guess cars had break lights for a long time now
I have seen bicyclists ticketed for not using hand signals
everyone where I live seems to know what the hand signals are

so glad there are no scheduled requited inspections in my state

At best people might pay attention to a bicyclist using hand signals.  I doubt it, but they might since they know bicycles dont have electric turn signals.  But nobody expects an automobile driver in modern world to use them.  Nobody is looking for hand signals and probably just assume the guy is knocking ash from his cigarette or exercising out a cramp in his arm...

If driving such an antique automobile you might be legally ok with cops using hand signals, but in real world traffic it would be as if you werent using any signal and you would be putting yourself in danger.  And at night it would be pointless short of having little flashing lighted arrows on the sleeve of your shirt....

I really wish I had a bunch of $2 Bills.

Rockpile